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Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 08:43:19 -0800 (PST)
From: "A. PIEKARSKI" <totus@rogers.com>
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Site for beginners.
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
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> 
> > I guess we've both said all we can say.
> > Time to end this :)
> 
> Possibly, although the way you say that it sounds like you disagree,
> but don't want to prolong what you see as an argument.  I certainly
> hope you *don't* feel that way, because I believe you have a lot to
> offer, and I believe that without some sort of effort like this the
> language to which I've given quite a lot of time to on and off over
> the last 15 years really will just limp along and eventually die.
> 
> I want to see your ideas, I want to see what you think beginners
> should be given, I want to see how *you* think and react and will
> use facilities.
> 
> I want to see how this can be made to work.  It's just that I also
> know how much work is involved, and I want to find a practical and
> effective way to make it happen.
> 
> In some ways I hope this is the beginning of the next phase. I can't
> make it happen, but maybe you can.
> 

Sorry, Colin. I agree with some of your points in this particular discourse, 
and disagree with others.  I thought that if I responded to each of them, we 
would end up going all over the place and risk losing sight of what this is all about. 
So I decided to break the thread and start afresh.

Here are some of my thoughts:

1)  We should be clear on what we want to achieve i.e. the objectives.  Is the 
prime objective to recruit new lojbanists, or merely to communicate well with 
those that happen to find us incidently? 

If it's the first, then we need to do a lot more than just provide a beginner's 
website.  We need to actively direct potential lojbanists to it.  I came across 
lojban accidently.  I have been told by at least some of the powers-that-be that 
we shouldn't recruit until the basics of the language are in place, and that 
includes things like getting the cmavo finalized.

If it's the second, then I wonder if more effort is needed than just making 
the current wiki more beginner-friendly.

2) What kind of beginners do we want to appeal to?  We can actively recruit 
anybody who may be interested, or just stick to techies.

3) If a new website is the way to go, who will maintain it and keep it 'fresh'? 
How will he/she do it.?  There nothing more demotivating than to see that latest 
news with a 2-year old date.  Our current website is finally looking up-to-date, but 
frankly the Community Activity on the home page is an embarrasment (take a look!). 
Does anybody care?

4) If we go with a new website, the look-and-feel of the home page will determine how 
many potential lojbanists continue on and develop their interest.  Once they are past 
the home page, the quality of the tools will be become all important.  Do we have a 
someone with 'design' skills (not just technical skills) to create a home page that's 
exciting, topical, and memorable?

5) What resources do we need to implement and keep it going?  In the past year 
I've got involved in two exciting projects: a new website (Jim Dabell) and text-to-speach 
(Donato).  Both initiators have 'disappeared' without warning.  That's quite demotivating 
to anyone else who was involved.  I realize that no-one can realistically commit to a 
lojban project with 100% certainty, but I do think that we need volunteers to state 
publically and up front how much time or other resources they intend to commit.


6) Whatever the answers to the above, what is the minimum agreement or support that 
we must get from the powers-that-be in order to achieve sucess?


By the way, I think we should move this off the beginners list.  Do you agree?

mi'e totus