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Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 16:06:14 -0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Duration questions
From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
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2010/3/29 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
>
> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Michael Turniansky
> <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 7:24 PM, tijlan <jbotijlan@googlemail.com> wrot=
e:
> >>
> >> Why would {ze'a lo cabdei} not mean "a time interval which is medium
> >> relative to the length of today", referring to about 12 hours, instead
> >> of "with today (24 hours) as the whole interval, the length of which I
> >> consider medium/unspecified"? Then we could just use {ze'e} in asking
> >> "To what does the whole interval of your having been living in this
> >> house amount?" If the answer is {lo cabdei}, the modal remains to be
> >> {ze'e} independent of the speakers' measurement.
> >
> > =A0Take heart. =A0That's exactly how I use ze'a and its kin. =A0Althoug=
h I
> > have no idea why your message took so long to get in my inbox...
>
> I also got this post only when Robin moved the list. I was going to
> respond but then I forgot. Three reasons:
>
> Reason one: parallelism with zi/za/zu. If you accept that ZI tags the
> full time displacement magnitude, it is only natural for ZEhA to tag
> the full duration magnitude. Similarly for VA and VEhA. There is no
> "total displacement" equivalent to ze'e/ve'e in ZI/VA. (This reason
> does not apply to those who don't use ZI/VA to tag displacement
> magnitudes.)'

=A0 Which of course I don't
>
> Reason two: consistency with the rest of the tags. "ze'u broda" says
> that broda takes a long time. "broda ze'u ko'a" should say the same
> thing, with more precision as to what a "long time" is, it should not
> shift to meaning that broda takes the best part of some interval,
> perhaps not a long time at all if the interval in question happens to
> be a short interval.
>

=A0 You and I have different ideas about what a "consistency" would
entail.=A0 "pu ko'a broda" isn't a "more precise version" of 'pu broda'
(although it CAN be).=A0 For example... mi pu klama le zarci -- I went
to the store before this point.=A0 mi pu lo bavlamdei cu klama le zarci
-- I am going to the store store before tomorrow.=A0 I haven't specified
the time period more precisely, in fact, I have possibly completely
shifted it from the past to the future.=A0 A tagged sumti makes the
tense relative to the sumti, rather than to now.=A0 Using "ze'u lo
dunda" to mean "a long tim relative to the winter (i.e. most of the
winter)" would continue that, making it consistent with all the other
tense-tagged sumti.


> Reason three: it is easy to get the fractional meaning by other means:
> "ze'a pi so'u ko'a", "ze'a pi so'i ko'a", "ze'a pi so'a ko'a", etc.

=A0 =A0 Thats a non-reason. a) I disagree that's "easy". =A0It's two more
words, for an already-wordy language b)=A0ability to do something in
more than one way doesn't mean that both ways shouldn't be available.
           --gejyspa
(Off for the next two days due to Passover, so don't expect any
replies to any replies to this any time soon)

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