Received: from mail-qy0-f155.google.com ([209.85.221.155])
	by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncCJ2UzZHuDRCNmazeBBoE1XV6aA@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1O3Ums-0005o6-8k; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 06:43:57 -0700
Received: by qyk27 with SMTP id 27sf7348765qyk.22
        for <multiple recipients>; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 06:43:44 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received
         :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to
         :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to
         :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to
         :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive
         :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=iyh494p4IxWS1ccqQsz2CKLArpL9SsQpX6FQLmoUWLA=;
        b=s3zU/KMct4EXjKosYNHvWTdNQmpGZ3sbQ3KE/tHfOgcvwHoL7y2cqZ7+th2ZwuDGd3
         n6TJon+FX34zxShtM8eJ4v5ayGGfqaMm94wIiNYdiWE87x4j9j4KNChjV5+1JNSOeujJ
         xk7fH2LIkyGBAyxQx+hgQNtXI3tWcx1yPNkYk=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
         :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results
         :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id
         :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe
         :list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        b=OpTN2MKREhgd04ViD3CstmJpQSHftP2oq1lMxrZtgvMkMw576QS0r/7uJTSNdWDCdC
         K2Mk145p052euXh0Z3tcGWS4mYKB0xHOBPo1JkIzAgNLuwsqzOY4OEIA8+Ceb2o9JKn9
         y3oZ7gOgm33QA6hPYOmcmUwtAHY58dp2W4oj8=
Received: by 10.224.115.28 with SMTP id g28mr303734qaq.45.1271598221324;
        Sun, 18 Apr 2010 06:43:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.224.59.82 with SMTP id k18ls4559416qah.5.p; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 
	06:43:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.224.17.201 with SMTP id t9mr506587qaa.16.1271598220272;
        Sun, 18 Apr 2010 06:43:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.224.17.201 with SMTP id t9mr506585qaa.16.1271598220217;
        Sun, 18 Apr 2010 06:43:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from qw-out-1920.google.com (qw-out-1920.google.com [74.125.92.149])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 19si835778qyk.9.2010.04.18.06.43.39;
        Sun, 18 Apr 2010 06:43:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.92.149 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.92.149;
Received: by qw-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 5so1116180qwc.16
        for <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 06:43:39 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.229.79.75 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 06:43:38 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <l2j23f4e3391004180353t5a71b632pc8feb4e6e25f4f73@mail.gmail.com>
References: <09da87a4-5d57-45d1-8de6-489ad02aea24@z7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
	 <l2q925d17561004171201y44cc6483s8e8593a1f759ab96@mail.gmail.com>
	 <4BCADA37.6010202@perpetuum-immobile.de>
	 <l2j23f4e3391004180353t5a71b632pc8feb4e6e25f4f73@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 10:43:38 -0300
Received: by 10.229.211.140 with SMTP id go12mr5515534qcb.32.1271598219014; 
	Sun, 18 Apr 2010 06:43:39 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <q2g925d17561004180643l623d870fg7b77089a6db40cb7@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] About {mi cu facki di'e}
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: 
	domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.92.149 as permitted sender) 
	smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com
X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact 
	lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, 
	<mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>, 
	<mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>, 
	<mailto:lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Length: 1597

On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 7:53 AM, David Gowers <00ai99@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> {mi cu facki la'e di'e .i mi nelci lonu citka}
> seems a bit idiomatic and possibly repetitive, in fact, to me it reads like
> "I discover [the-me-who-likes-eating]. I like eating"
> Or maybe "I discover the liking-to-eat aspect of me-ness" to be more
> literal.

It's more like:

  "I discover the following fact: I like eating."

> I'd still argue that this is a bit of an awkward phrasing.

I don't see any problem with it, though of course there are other ways
of saying similar things.

> {mi facki lo du'u mi nelci lo nu citka} also works if facki is of
> primary importance rather than discursive.

Yes.

> I think du'u may be incorrect in this context, though.. A liking is
> really more of an event than a fact, given it can change over time.
>
> {mi facki lo canu mi nelci lo nu citka}
> -- changing the meaning slightly to be a bit more specific, "I
> discover that I currently.."

The choice between "du'u" and "nu" doesn't really depend on what a
liking is, but on what a se facki is. A se facki is a fact. So if what
you discover is that you currently like eating, that would be: "mi
facki lo du'u mi ca nelci lo nu citka".

mu'o mi'e xorxes

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.