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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] About {mi cu facki di'e}
From: David Gowers <00ai99@gmail.com>
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2010/4/18 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
> On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 7:53 AM, David Gowers <00ai99@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
> It's more like:
>
> =A0"I discover the following fact: I like eating."

I discover the following fact: My understanding of lojban referents is
inadequate :)

Referent is like expanding the named clause (in this case, the next
bridi), right?
I confused the referent (mi nelci lonu citka) with the subject (mi).

>> I think du'u may be incorrect in this context, though.. A liking is
>> really more of an event than a fact, given it can change over time.
>>
>> {mi facki lo canu mi nelci lo nu citka}
>> -- changing the meaning slightly to be a bit more specific, "I
>> discover that I currently.."
>
> The choice between "du'u" and "nu" doesn't really depend on what a
> liking is, but on what a se facki is. A se facki is a fact.

I took your initial point (pay attention to explicit
'this-place-contains-an-XYZ' markers); however a se facki (ie. du'u)
is not a fact, it's a predicate; that is, it's something that *can* be
true, rather than something that *is* true.
(this is rather trivial to illustrate with Newton's Law; not 'TRUE',
but a valid observation that fit the evidence and continued to do so
for some time)
As far as I understand the idea of 'fact's, they denote an idea which
significant (say, >50%) probability is assigned to (typically through
collective observation and agreement). On the other hand, a
du'u/predicate only has to have some probability (that is, nonzero; it
could be as small as 10^-30 %). That places 'the sky is blue' and 'we
were designed by an omnipotent god' as both being du'u* (which
evidently would be a substantial problem if du'u or se facki really
was representative of facts.)

* if you accept the premise that assigning probabilities of exactly 0
or 1 is statistically nonsensical.

> So if what
> you discover is that you currently like eating, that would be: "mi
> facki lo du'u mi ca nelci lo nu citka".
>

Thanks for helping me understand time tense binding a bit better :)

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