Received: from mail-qy0-f162.google.com ([209.85.221.162])
	by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncCJ2UzZHuDRCQsa7eBBoEkA7FuA@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1O3e6z-0001lW-Kk; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 16:41:18 -0700
Received: by qyk34 with SMTP id 34sf8019900qyk.21
        for <multiple recipients>; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 16:41:07 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received
         :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:in-reply-to
         :references:date:received:message-id:subject:from:to
         :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to
         :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive
         :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type
         :content-transfer-encoding;
        bh=gMfiNPkg954dhsMKDNFn5I3icoZlfO/DT317tIOEH/c=;
        b=IxkQN/cX//NhSlyXCoSd7aGAMDVRF6H6Z62mhB4sa0zECdQ7fPFFeXggKVyqGboQtb
         zFZCIFjo+MZUEsUeSMF7fWiMJjdkgg+0BmVUltQ0KnhiiYA34kp51km7eT5ttKMhFwYj
         d32g47TAAHpEH2hjKYp9uIvk0sYPq8X7EdXT4=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
         :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results
         :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id
         :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe
         :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
        b=lYsAaNIJdlO90BsrIZvB0i1CBeqvok9t3C1vdvE3M6vNbfw4arh1Z/eAPuhYuKH1xj
         LwgTUXKCBqtaYaHScjizt1mCzbJGoMR6sSsLwe8Mo8ui08VjMgYX2WRBYTgjYNVTwCZT
         1HyFoaOSGZEzLE7J8MR8L8n+FFGsorK5I/JH0=
Received: by 10.229.1.153 with SMTP id 25mr260136qcf.16.1271634064671;
        Sun, 18 Apr 2010 16:41:04 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.229.210.31 with SMTP id gi31ls7977971qcb.0.p; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 
	16:41:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.229.115.65 with SMTP id h1mr455970qcq.23.1271634063545;
        Sun, 18 Apr 2010 16:41:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.229.115.65 with SMTP id h1mr455969qcq.23.1271634063509;
        Sun, 18 Apr 2010 16:41:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from qw-out-2122.google.com (qw-out-2122.google.com [74.125.92.24])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 19si932908qyk.5.2010.04.18.16.41.02;
        Sun, 18 Apr 2010 16:41:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.92.24 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.92.24;
Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 9so1488286qwb.65
        for <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 16:41:02 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.229.79.75 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 16:41:02 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <f1a34340-0226-4591-9ec0-6140bff6f7f3@y14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
References: <f1a34340-0226-4591-9ec0-6140bff6f7f3@y14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 20:41:02 -0300
Received: by 10.229.14.157 with SMTP id g29mr2234435qca.57.1271634062210; Sun, 
	18 Apr 2010 16:41:02 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <w2p925d17561004181641p5c17d88ex3a828065ec0804b0@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] cei
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: 
	domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.92.24 as permitted sender) 
	smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com
X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact 
	lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, 
	<mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>, 
	<mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>, 
	<mailto:lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Length: 1245

On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 8:07 PM, tijlan <jbotijlan@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Is it grammatical to introduce a lujvo with "cei" following a tanru,
> even if no pro-bridi is involved, like this:
>
> =A0ti carna nalci vinji cei carna'ivinji

It's grammatical, but the question is, what does it mean?

"cei" identifies the two predicates it joins, but a tanru and the
lujvo made with the tanru elements usually will be two different
predicates.

The tanru has the same place structure of the rightmost element.
(Except when "co" is involved, then things get complicated.)

The lujvo will have its own usually different place structure, based
on the arguments of all of its components. So strictly speaking it
would not make sense to connect a lujvo and a tanru with "cei" that
way, unless you are defining the lujvo as having the same meaning of
the tanru.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=
googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
-beginners?hl=3Den.