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Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 10:12:01 -0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Conditionals--da'i etc.
From: Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
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Really?  "pigs can fly" seems like a physical impossibility, not a logical
one.  I've always heard it "if (x and not x) then the moon is made of green
cheese".

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 10:01 AM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>wrote=
:

> So nibli is not defined using the classical implication, then? Because in
> the classical implication "pigs can fly implies that the sky is green" is
> (assuming that we haven't done something really bizarre to the pigs) true=
.
>
>
> mu'o mi'e latros.
>
> 2010/4/30 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
>
>  On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 8:03 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Related question: how is nibli defined, exactly? Based on what I've
>> learned
>> > in logic-heavy math classes, this should be true:
>> >
>> > .i lo du'u broda cu nibli lo du'u brode .ijo ganai broda gi brode
>> >
>> > Is it?
>>
>> Not really. The nibli-statement on the left is a much stronger
>> statement than the material implication connective on the right.
>>
>> Suppose:
>>
>> broda =3D Eyjafjallaj=F6kull is a volcano in Iceland.
>> brode =3D Paris is the capital of France.
>>
>> Both "broda" and "brode" happen to be true, so "ganai broda gi brode"
>> is also true.
>>
>> But "lo du'u broda cu nibli lo du'u brode" says that starting from
>> "broda", and applying the logical rules of inference (implicit in the
>> x3 of nibli, let's assume the usual ones) then you can infer "brode".
>> But you can't really infer "Paris is the capital of France" from
>> "Eyjafjallaj=F6kull is a volcano in Iceland".
>>
>> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group=
s
>> "Lojban Beginners" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
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>> .
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>>
>>
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Really? =A0&quot;pigs can fly&quot; seems like a physical=A0impossibility, =
not a logical one. =A0I&#39;ve always heard it &quot;if (x and not x) then =
the moon is made of green cheese&quot;.<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">O=
n Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 10:01 AM, Ian Johnson <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:blindbravado@gmail.com">blindbravado@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wr=
ote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div>So nibli is not defined using=A0the cl=
assical implication, then? Because in the classical implication &quot;pigs =
can fly implies that the sky is green&quot; is (assuming that we haven&#39;=
t=A0done=A0something really bizarre to the pigs)=A0true.<div class=3D"im">
<br>
<br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e latros.</div></div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">2010/4/30 Jorge Llamb=EDas <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jjllambias@gmail=
.com</a>&gt;</span><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"padding-left:1ex;margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left:#ccc 1px solid">
<div>On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 8:03 PM, Ian Johnson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bli=
ndbravado@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">blindbravado@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote=
:<br>&gt; Related question: how is nibli defined, exactly? Based on what I&=
#39;ve learned<br>

&gt; in logic-heavy math classes, this should be true:<br>&gt;<br>&gt; .i l=
o du&#39;u broda cu nibli lo du&#39;u brode .ijo ganai broda gi brode<br>&g=
t;<br>&gt; Is it?<br><br></div>Not really. The nibli-statement on the left =
is a much stronger<br>

statement than the material implication connective on the right.<br><br>Sup=
pose:<br><br>broda =3D Eyjafjallaj=F6kull is a volcano in Iceland.<br>brode=
 =3D Paris is the capital of France.<br><br>Both &quot;broda&quot; and &quo=
t;brode&quot; happen to be true, so &quot;ganai broda gi brode&quot;<br>

is also true.<br><br>But &quot;lo du&#39;u broda cu nibli lo du&#39;u brode=
&quot; says that starting from<br>&quot;broda&quot;, and applying the logic=
al rules of inference (implicit in the<br>x3 of nibli, let&#39;s assume the=
 usual ones) then you can infer &quot;brode&quot;.<br>

But you can&#39;t really infer &quot;Paris is the capital of France&quot; f=
rom<br>&quot;Eyjafjallaj=F6kull is a volcano in Iceland&quot;.<br><br>mu&#3=
9;o mi&#39;e xorxes<br>
<div>
<div></div>
<div><br>--<br>You received this message because you are subscribed to the =
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 href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den" target=3D=
"_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>

<br></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div><div></div><div class=
=3D"h5"><br>

<p></p>

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</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

<p></p>

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/>
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