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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Proposed change to smart.fm items
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
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On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 3:04 AM, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2 May 2010 01:10, Kevin Reid <kpreid@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> I propose to change the English text for the following gismu place items
>> in the "Lojban gismu" smart.fm goal as follows:
>>
>>  lo se djica   something desired => a state desired
>>
>>    To emphasize that lo se djica is not a physical object.
>>
>
> Yes, that's the official definition. But I don't see why it should not
> include a physical object, when {nelci}'s x2 does.
>
>
>  lo te troci   a method of trial => a method tried
>>
>>    The existing wording sounds like "a method of testing", not
>>    "the way we tried to do it".
>>
>
> {lo te troci} can also mean a method that "is to be tried", "is going to be
> tried", "is being tried" etc., not only the preterite (past) "tried". I
> suggest "method of effort" instead.
>
> The keyword for troci is "try", not "effort". All the English translations
need to have the keyword in them in some way. This is, by the way, the only
objection I have to any proposed changes now or in the future regarding the
Smart.fm lists. (Not that I might not have other objections for any
particular case, but this is the only objection that would apply to ANY
suggestion.)

>
>
>>  lo se troci   something tried => ???
>>
>>    This seems misleading in that it sounds like "I tried a new food"
>>    or similar. "something tried for" would be better, but I don't quite
>>    like it.
>>
>
> Maybe "goal of effort".
>

See above comment regarding my opinion on this.

>
>
>
>>  lo te jimpe   a subject of something understood =>
>>                    a subject understood about
>>
>>    Trying to make the relation clearer.
>>
>
> Maybe "topic of fact understood".
>

Personally, I think "[a] topic of fact understood" is actually worse than "a
subject of something understood".

>
>
> mu'o mi'e tijlan
>
> --
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>



-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu

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<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 3:04 AM, tijlan <=
span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jbotijlan@gmail.com">jbotijlan@gmail=
.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding=
-left: 1ex;">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im">On 2 May 2010 01:10, Kevin Rei=
d <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kpreid@mac.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>kpreid@mac.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 20=
4); padding-left: 1ex;">

I propose to change the English text for the following gismu place items in=
 the &quot;Lojban gismu&quot; <a href=3D"http://smart.fm" target=3D"_blank"=
>smart.fm</a> goal as follows:<br>
<br>
 =A0lo se djica =A0 something desired =3D&gt; a state desired<br>
<br>
 =A0 =A0To emphasize that lo se djica is not a physical object.<br></blockq=
uote></div><div><br>Yes, that&#39;s the official definition. But I don&#39;=
t see why it should not include a physical object, when {nelci}&#39;s x2 do=
es.<br>

<br><br></div><div class=3D"im"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); paddi=
ng-left: 1ex;">

 =A0lo te troci =A0 a method of trial =3D&gt; a method tried<br>
<br>
 =A0 =A0The existing wording sounds like &quot;a method of testing&quot;, n=
ot<br>
 =A0 =A0&quot;the way we tried to do it&quot;.<br></blockquote></div><div><=
br>{lo te troci} can also mean a method that &quot;is to be tried&quot;, &q=
uot;is going to be tried&quot;, &quot;is being tried&quot; etc., not only t=
he preterite (past) &quot;tried&quot;. I suggest &quot;method of effort&quo=
t; instead.<br>

<br></div></div></blockquote><div>The keyword for troci is &quot;try&quot;,=
 not &quot;effort&quot;. All the English translations need to have the keyw=
ord in them in some way. This is, by the way, the only objection I have to =
any proposed changes now or in the future regarding the Smart.fm lists. (No=
t that I might not have other objections for any particular case, but this =
is the only objection that would apply to ANY suggestion.) <br>
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;=
 border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div>=A0</div><div class=3D"im"><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,=
 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">


 =A0lo se troci =A0 something tried =3D&gt; ???<br>
<br>
 =A0 =A0This seems misleading in that it sounds like &quot;I tried a new fo=
od&quot;<br>
 =A0 =A0or similar. &quot;something tried for&quot; would be better, but I =
don&#39;t quite<br>
 =A0 =A0like it.<br></blockquote></div><div><br>Maybe &quot;goal of effort&=
quot;.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br>See above comment regarding my =
opinion on this. <br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-le=
ft: 1ex;">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><br>=A0</div><div class=3D"im"><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px =
solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">

 =A0lo te jimpe =A0 a subject of something understood =3D&gt;<br>
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0a subject understood about<br>
<br>
 =A0 =A0Trying to make the relation clearer.<br></blockquote></div><div><br=
>Maybe &quot;topic of fact understood&quot;.<br></div></div></blockquote><d=
iv><br>Personally, I think &quot;[a] topic of fact understood&quot; is actu=
ally worse than &quot;a subject of something understood&quot;.<br>
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;=
 border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div><br><br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e tijlan<br></div></div><div>=
<div>
</div><div class=3D"h5"><div style=3D"display: inline;">
</div>

<p></p>

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roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>


</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi=
&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.a&#39;o.e&#39;e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu<br>=
<br>

<p></p>

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/>
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