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On 5 May 2010 20:25, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
> I see {djica} in an abstract way as being similar to why we have all 4 of
ri'a, mu'i, ni'i, and ki'u. The notion that "you want a thing" makes as much
logical sense as "Sally hit you *physically because* you pulled her hair" in
this sense,

That Sally example is actually plausible, because at least from the
scientific viewpoint there would be only physical causation from your
pulling Sally's hair to her hitting you, including her psychological process
that is based on the physical neurological behaviours in her brain.


> because whenever you want a thing there is something that you want to
happen or be true (usually to "have" the thing or something related to
that).

Let's say that I want an apple, meaning that I want the event of me eating
an apple. Why would it be impossible for {lo (ba) plise (poi mi citka ke'a)}
to represent {lo (ba) nu da plise fi'o citka mi}? What significant
difference is there between 'a would-be apple (eaten by me)' and 'a would-be
event of something appling with me as its eater'?


> On the other hand you could make the argument that {nelci} should then
take a {ka} and then you "like <some property(ies)> about <something(s)>",
which would be kind of cumbersome.

Why {ka}? How is {lo plise zo'u mi nelci lo ka titla} different from {lo
plise zo'u mi nelci lo nu titla}? If potentiality (can taste sweet) and
actuality (is tasting sweet) are concerned, the distinction can be made with
{ka'e} and {ca'a} (in the NU clause) in a much less vague fashion than {ka}
and {nu}.

There is no point in separating X's properties from properties' X as two
sumti for only one statement about the properties. "I like <the Y-ing> about
<X>" can just be "I like <X Y-ing>". So, instead of {mi nelci lo nu titla
kei lo plise}, {mi nelci lo nu lo plise cu titla}.

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On 5 May 2010 20:25, Ian Johnson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:blindbravado@gmail.c=
om">blindbravado@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt; I see {djica} in an abstr=
act way as being similar to why we have all 4 of ri&#39;a, mu&#39;i, ni&#39=
;i, and ki&#39;u. The notion that &quot;you want a thing&quot; makes as muc=
h logical sense as &quot;Sally hit you <i>physically because</i> you pulled=
 her hair&quot; in this sense,<br>
<br>That Sally example is actually plausible, because at least from the sci=
entific viewpoint there would be only physical causation from your pulling =
Sally&#39;s hair to her hitting you, including her psychological process th=
at is based on the physical neurological behaviours in her brain.<br>
<br><br>&gt; because whenever you want a thing there is something that you =
want to happen or be true (usually to &quot;have&quot; the thing or somethi=
ng related to that).<br><br>Let&#39;s say that I want an apple, meaning tha=
t I want the event of me eating an apple. Why would it be impossible for {l=
o (ba) plise (poi mi citka ke&#39;a)} to represent {lo (ba) nu da plise fi&=
#39;o citka mi}? What significant difference is there between &#39;a would-=
be apple (eaten by me)&#39; and &#39;a would-be event of something appling =
with me as its eater&#39;?<br>
<br><br>&gt; On the other hand you could make the argument that {nelci} sho=
uld then take a {ka} and then you &quot;like &lt;some property(ies)&gt; abo=
ut &lt;something(s)&gt;&quot;, which would be kind of cumbersome.<br><br>
Why {ka}? How is {lo plise zo&#39;u mi nelci lo ka titla} different from {l=
o plise zo&#39;u mi nelci lo nu titla}? If potentiality (can taste sweet) a=
nd actuality (is tasting sweet) are concerned, the distinction can be made =
with {ka&#39;e} and {ca&#39;a} (in the NU clause) in a much less vague fash=
ion than {ka} and {nu}.<br>
<br>There is no point in separating X&#39;s properties from properties&#39;=
 X as two sumti for only one statement about the properties. &quot;I like &=
lt;the Y-ing&gt; about &lt;X&gt;&quot; can just be &quot;I like &lt;X Y-ing=
&gt;&quot;. So, instead of {mi nelci lo nu titla kei lo plise}, {mi nelci l=
o nu lo plise cu titla}.<br>
<div style=3D"visibility: hidden; display: inline;" id=3D"avg_ls_inline_pop=
up"></div><style type=3D"text/css">#avg_ls_inline_popup {  position:absolut=
e;  z-index:9999;  padding: 0px 0px;  margin-left: 0px;  margin-top: 0px;  =
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nt-size: 10px;  text-align: left;  line-height: 13px;}</style><div style=3D=
"display: none ! important; visibility: hidden ! important; position: absol=
ute ! important; height: auto ! important; width: auto; z-index: 1410065406=
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dius: 3px 3px 3px 3px ! important; vertical-align: middle ! important; padd=
ing: 1px ! important; margin: 0px ! important; color: rgb(0, 0, 0) ! import=
ant; background-color: rgb(168, 236, 255) ! important; font-family: Arial !=
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ont-weight: normal ! important; left: -12px ! important; top: 328px ! impor=
tant;" id=3D"gmBFhv">
</div>

<p></p>

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