Received: from mail-qy0-f167.google.com ([209.85.221.167])
	by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncCOzcnrWBFBDg8ILfBBoETpw3zg@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1O9SG3-0000HQ-Aq; Tue, 04 May 2010 17:14:39 -0700
Received: by qyk39 with SMTP id 39sf2610476qyk.10
        for <multiple recipients>; Tue, 04 May 2010 17:14:27 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received
         :received:received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received
         :sender:received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from
         :to:x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to
         :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive
         :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=H+Li3n+hvSMoAlXSL0729YuV3S2Lvok2Zp6MgZ+LF1A=;
        b=bKn374OOvwAVf1aqEtHDwlXSZhocvP0AMrRSwhWJBxf4+fFW52WEXgZuA/7Xx8lzlE
         J/AOhEc6aSEbH5CWr/dy74xKF4NS9JjNiUFp4mpspLzRiuSZrLKFb2Z4D81ZjxSVujuq
         yBH9OiB8Sl1Xqq1/GGlYpxAOD7AcKTc+LN0V8=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references
         :date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results
         :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id
         :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe
         :content-type;
        b=GeoTqx+dyYdA4xF04J9xPQLtOBim4KVixNUjUoZFNDU6SwcqqbQic9Wm9TnihX0aVF
         wUbRxeO9JZ4ek6K4tVOgE+kGm3dyu2KN90+mjWGUB8WfCoVdsP6EQ4W7xKoIaDTlI3BH
         nCLtlnolTStqrAmzMjyQkzXdii723FpEOYabc=
Received: by 10.224.10.167 with SMTP id p39mr386026qap.40.1273018464794;
        Tue, 04 May 2010 17:14:24 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.224.59.82 with SMTP id k18ls1394556qah.5.p; Tue, 04 May 2010 
	17:14:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.224.52.208 with SMTP id j16mr863633qag.12.1273018463989;
        Tue, 04 May 2010 17:14:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.220.76.74 with SMTP id b10mr1301015vck.12.1272791087426;
        Sun, 02 May 2010 02:04:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.220.76.74 with SMTP id b10mr1301014vck.12.1272791087397;
        Sun, 02 May 2010 02:04:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qy0-f171.google.com (mail-qy0-f171.google.com [209.85.221.171])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id f6si1130197vcp.3.2010.05.02.02.04.46;
        Sun, 02 May 2010 02:04:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of pascal.akihiko@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.221.171;
Received: by qyk1 with SMTP id 1so2234487qyk.5
        for <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>; Sun, 02 May 2010 02:04:46 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.229.239.148 with SMTP id kw20mr955785qcb.10.1272791086098; 
	Sun, 02 May 2010 02:04:46 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.229.1.222 with HTTP; Sun, 2 May 2010 02:04:46 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <2035EAA2-54C5-4259-BC7C-497A1CA2A4F5@mac.com>
References: <2035EAA2-54C5-4259-BC7C-497A1CA2A4F5@mac.com>
Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 10:04:46 +0100
Message-ID: <n2r4de8c3931005020204vb8b15beckad10e4e0b8c59b71@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Proposed change to smart.fm items
From: tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: 
	domain of pascal.akihiko@gmail.com designates 209.85.221.171 as permitted 
	sender) smtp.mail=pascal.akihiko@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) 
	header.i=@gmail.com
X-Original-Sender: pascal.akihiko@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact 
	lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, 
	<mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>, 
	<mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>, 
	<mailto:lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e64cba268f699c048598c492
Content-Length: 4939

--0016e64cba268f699c048598c492
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 2 May 2010 01:10, Kevin Reid <kpreid@mac.com> wrote:

> I propose to change the English text for the following gismu place items in
> the "Lojban gismu" smart.fm goal as follows:
>
>  lo se djica   something desired => a state desired
>
>    To emphasize that lo se djica is not a physical object.
>

Yes, that's the official definition. But I don't see why it should not
include a physical object, when {nelci}'s x2 does.


 lo te troci   a method of trial => a method tried
>
>    The existing wording sounds like "a method of testing", not
>    "the way we tried to do it".
>

{lo te troci} can also mean a method that "is to be tried", "is going to be
tried", "is being tried" etc., not only the preterite (past) "tried". I
suggest "method of effort" instead.



>  lo se troci   something tried => ???
>
>    This seems misleading in that it sounds like "I tried a new food"
>    or similar. "something tried for" would be better, but I don't quite
>    like it.
>

Maybe "goal of effort".



>  lo te jimpe   a subject of something understood =>
>                    a subject understood about
>
>    Trying to make the relation clearer.
>

Maybe "topic of fact understood".


mu'o mi'e tijlan

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.


--0016e64cba268f699c048598c492
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 2 May 2010 01:10, Kevin Reid <span dir=3D"ltr=
">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kpreid@mac.com">kpreid@mac.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote=
:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; =
border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
I propose to change the English text for the following gismu place items in=
 the &quot;Lojban gismu&quot; <a href=3D"http://smart.fm" target=3D"_blank"=
>smart.fm</a> goal as follows:<br>
<br>
 =A0lo se djica =A0 something desired =3D&gt; a state desired<br>
<br>
 =A0 =A0To emphasize that lo se djica is not a physical object.<br></blockq=
uote><div><br>Yes, that&#39;s the official definition. But I don&#39;t see =
why it should not include a physical object, when {nelci}&#39;s x2 does.<br=
>
<br><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0p=
t 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">

 =A0lo te troci =A0 a method of trial =3D&gt; a method tried<br>
<br>
 =A0 =A0The existing wording sounds like &quot;a method of testing&quot;, n=
ot<br>
 =A0 =A0&quot;the way we tried to do it&quot;.<br></blockquote><div><br>{lo=
 te troci} can also mean a method that &quot;is to be tried&quot;, &quot;is=
 going to be tried&quot;, &quot;is being tried&quot; etc., not only the pre=
terite (past) &quot;tried&quot;. I suggest &quot;method of effort&quot; ins=
tead.<br>
<br>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt=
 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">

 =A0lo se troci =A0 something tried =3D&gt; ???<br>
<br>
 =A0 =A0This seems misleading in that it sounds like &quot;I tried a new fo=
od&quot;<br>
 =A0 =A0or similar. &quot;something tried for&quot; would be better, but I =
don&#39;t quite<br>
 =A0 =A0like it.<br></blockquote><div><br>Maybe &quot;goal of effort&quot;.=
<br><br>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt=
 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">

 =A0lo te jimpe =A0 a subject of something understood =3D&gt;<br>
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0a subject understood about<br>
<br>
 =A0 =A0Trying to make the relation clearer.<br></blockquote><div><br>Maybe=
 &quot;topic of fact understood&quot;.<br><br><br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e tijlan<=
br></div></div><div style=3D"visibility: hidden; display: inline;" id=3D"av=
g_ls_inline_popup">
</div><style type=3D"text/css">#avg_ls_inline_popup {  position:absolute;  =
z-index:9999;  padding: 0px 0px;  margin-left: 0px;  margin-top: 0px;  widt=
h: 240px;  overflow: hidden;  word-wrap: break-word;  color: black;  font-s=
ize: 10px;  text-align: left;  line-height: 13px;}</style>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
/>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=
googlegroups.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
-beginners?hl=3Den.<br />



--0016e64cba268f699c048598c492--