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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] sei vs to
From: Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
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Also, I don't know if they're defined this way precisely, but when I see
{sei} I usually get the connotation that it's more closely related to the
text at hand.  While to ... toi feels much more like it could be about
anything, e.g. {la djan cu citka le plise to mi ji'a nelci toi} while this
feels like it would be inappropriate for {sei}.

That could just be a distinction from usage though and have nothing to do
with the actual grammar of either.

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 1:25 PM, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 11 May 2010 16:57, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That brings up a question for me.  In that sentence that you gave tijlan,
>> what about the text tells us that the {fi lo cukta...} applies to the
>> {prali} and not to the {pensi}?  Does {sei} take a bridi, a selbri, or
>> something else?  What terminates a {sei} or is the idea of terminating {sei}
>> as absurd as terminating {zo}?  I've perused the CLL but {sei} isn't
>> documented very well there from what I have found.
>
>
> {sei}'s scope ends right after the end of the last selbri that it contains.
> So, no sumti or tag following that in-sei selbri becomes part of the sei
> scope, unless they are attached to it with {be}.
>
> One little advantage of {sei} is that its terminator {se'u} is elidable in
> more occasions than {to}'s {toi} is:
>
>  ma prali sei la alis pensi [se'u] ti
>  ma prali to la alis pensi toi ti
>
> But an easy change in the word order would offset that advantage:
>
>  ma prali ti sei la alis pensi [se'u]
>  ma prali ti to la alis pensi [toi]
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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Also, I don&#39;t know if they&#39;re defined this way precisely, but when =
I see {sei} I usually get the connotation that it&#39;s more closely relate=
d to the text at hand. =A0While to ... toi feels much more like it could be=
 about anything, e.g. {la djan cu citka le plise to mi ji&#39;a nelci toi} =
while this feels like it would be=A0inappropriate=A0for {sei}.<div>
<br></div><div>That could just be a distinction from usage though and have =
nothing to do with the actual grammar of either.<br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 1:25 PM, tijlan <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:jbotijlan@gmail.com">jbotijlan@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:=
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im=
">On 11 May 2010 16:57, Luke Bergen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:lukeabergen@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">lukeabergen@gmail.com</a>&gt;</sp=
an> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex">
That brings up a question for me. =A0In that sentence that you gave tijlan,=
 what about the text tells us that the {fi lo cukta...} applies to the {pra=
li} and not to the {pensi}? =A0Does {sei} take a bridi, a selbri, or someth=
ing else? =A0What terminates a {sei} or is the idea of terminating {sei} as=
 absurd as terminating {zo}? =A0I&#39;ve perused the CLL but {sei} isn&#39;=
t documented very well there from what I have found.</blockquote>

</div><div><br>{sei}&#39;s scope ends right after the end of the last selbr=
i that it contains. So, no sumti or tag following that in-sei selbri become=
s part of the sei scope, unless they are attached to it with {be}.<br>
<br>One little advantage of {sei} is that its terminator {se&#39;u} is elid=
able in more occasions than {to}&#39;s {toi} is:<br>
<br>=A0ma prali sei la alis pensi [se&#39;u] ti<br>=A0ma prali to la alis p=
ensi toi ti<br><br>But an easy change in the word order would offset that a=
dvantage:<br><br>=A0ma prali ti sei la alis pensi [se&#39;u]<br>=A0ma prali=
 ti to la alis pensi [toi]<br>

</div></div><div style=3D"display:inline"></div>

<p></p>

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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

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/>
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