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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] sei vs to
From: Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
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oops, sorry, I wanted my example to go: {la djan cu citka lo plise to mi
ji'a nelci py}.  In my first example {sei} would feel perfectly natural
while not so much in the revised example.

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 1:30 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:

> Also, I don't know if they're defined this way precisely, but when I see
> {sei} I usually get the connotation that it's more closely related to the
> text at hand.  While to ... toi feels much more like it could be about
> anything, e.g. {la djan cu citka le plise to mi ji'a nelci toi} while this
> feels like it would be inappropriate for {sei}.
>
> That could just be a distinction from usage though and have nothing to do
> with the actual grammar of either.
>
>
> On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 1:25 PM, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 11 May 2010 16:57, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> That brings up a question for me.  In that sentence that you gave tijlan,
>>> what about the text tells us that the {fi lo cukta...} applies to the
>>> {prali} and not to the {pensi}?  Does {sei} take a bridi, a selbri, or
>>> something else?  What terminates a {sei} or is the idea of terminating {sei}
>>> as absurd as terminating {zo}?  I've perused the CLL but {sei} isn't
>>> documented very well there from what I have found.
>>
>>
>> {sei}'s scope ends right after the end of the last selbri that it
>> contains. So, no sumti or tag following that in-sei selbri becomes part of
>> the sei scope, unless they are attached to it with {be}.
>>
>> One little advantage of {sei} is that its terminator {se'u} is elidable in
>> more occasions than {to}'s {toi} is:
>>
>>  ma prali sei la alis pensi [se'u] ti
>>  ma prali to la alis pensi toi ti
>>
>> But an easy change in the word order would offset that advantage:
>>
>>  ma prali ti sei la alis pensi [se'u]
>>  ma prali ti to la alis pensi [toi]
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Lojban Beginners" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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>> .
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
>>
>
>

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oops, sorry, I wanted my example to go: {la djan cu citka lo plise to mi ji=
&#39;a nelci py}. =A0In my first example {sei} would feel perfectly natural=
 while not so much in the revised example.<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote=
">
On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 1:30 PM, Luke Bergen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com">lukeabergen@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrot=
e:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
Also, I don&#39;t know if they&#39;re defined this way precisely, but when =
I see {sei} I usually get the connotation that it&#39;s more closely relate=
d to the text at hand. =A0While to ... toi feels much more like it could be=
 about anything, e.g. {la djan cu citka le plise to mi ji&#39;a nelci toi} =
while this feels like it would be=A0inappropriate=A0for {sei}.<div>

<br></div><div>That could just be a distinction from usage though and have =
nothing to do with the actual grammar of either.<div><div></div><div class=
=3D"h5"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 1:25 PM,=
 tijlan <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jbotijlan@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">jbotijlan@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>On 11 May 20=
10 16:57, Luke Bergen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lukeabergen@g=
mail.com" target=3D"_blank">lukeabergen@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex">
That brings up a question for me. =A0In that sentence that you gave tijlan,=
 what about the text tells us that the {fi lo cukta...} applies to the {pra=
li} and not to the {pensi}? =A0Does {sei} take a bridi, a selbri, or someth=
ing else? =A0What terminates a {sei} or is the idea of terminating {sei} as=
 absurd as terminating {zo}? =A0I&#39;ve perused the CLL but {sei} isn&#39;=
t documented very well there from what I have found.</blockquote>


</div><div><br>{sei}&#39;s scope ends right after the end of the last selbr=
i that it contains. So, no sumti or tag following that in-sei selbri become=
s part of the sei scope, unless they are attached to it with {be}.<br>

<br>One little advantage of {sei} is that its terminator {se&#39;u} is elid=
able in more occasions than {to}&#39;s {toi} is:<br>
<br>=A0ma prali sei la alis pensi [se&#39;u] ti<br>=A0ma prali to la alis p=
ensi toi ti<br><br>But an easy change in the word order would offset that a=
dvantage:<br><br>=A0ma prali ti sei la alis pensi [se&#39;u]<br>=A0ma prali=
 ti to la alis pensi [toi]<br>


</div></div><div style=3D"display:inline"></div>

<p></p>

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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br>

<p></p>

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/>
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