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Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 14:22:03 -0600
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Proposed change to smart.fm items
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
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On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 8:28 AM, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>  lo te jimpe   a subject of something understood =>
>>>>>                    a subject understood about
>>>>>
>>>>>    Trying to make the relation clearer.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Maybe "topic of fact understood".
>>>>
>>>
>>> Personally, I think "[a] topic of fact understood" is actually worse than
>>> "a subject of something understood".
>>>
>>
>> x2 is a fact that is understood by x1. And "topic" is less ambiguous than
>> "subject":
>> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/topic
>> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/subject
>> Hence my suggestion: x3 is the topic of x2, which is a fact [that is]
>> understood by x1.
>>
>
> I can think of two arguments against your suggestion of using "topic" vs.
> "subject":
> 1) In the context of {jimpe}, the use of the word subject falls under Noun
> definition 2 and/or 3, and therefore is not any more or less vague than
> "topic".
> 2) The official definition of {jimpe} is:"x1 understands/comprehends
> fact/truth x2 (du'u) about subject x3; x1 understands (fi) x3". As the
> official definition uses "subject" for {lo te jimpe}, "topic" is not a
> better suggestion.
>
> All I'll say about "fact" is that it is unnecessary in the definition of
> {lo te jimpe}; what is important is that {lo te jimpe} is a subject, and
> that something is understood about that subject. As an example: {lo glibau
> te jimpe mi}, "The English language is understood by me".
>
> Two things:  {lo glibau te jimpe /fi/ mi}. Oops.
"x1 understands (fi) x3" <- Note that this is part of the official
definition, for cases when {lo se jimpe} is elided.

> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Lojban Beginners" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
>> .
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu
>
>


-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu

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<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Jonathan=
 Jones <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com">eyeonus@g=
mail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); p=
adding-left: 1ex;">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im">On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 8:28 AM=
, tijlan <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jbotijlan@gmail.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">jbotijlan@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid=
 rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">

<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); paddi=
ng-left: 1ex;"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><br><div><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(20=
4, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">



<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><br>=A0</div><div><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204=
, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">

 =A0lo te jimpe =A0 a subject of something understood =3D&gt;<br>
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0a subject understood about<br>
<br>
 =A0 =A0Trying to make the relation clearer.<br></blockquote></div><div><br=
>Maybe &quot;topic of fact understood&quot;.<br></div></div></blockquote></=
div><div><br>Personally, I think &quot;[a] topic of fact understood&quot; i=
s actually worse than &quot;a subject of something understood&quot;.<br>


</div></div></blockquote></div><div><br>x2 is a fact that is understood by =
x1. And &quot;topic&quot; is less ambiguous than &quot;subject&quot;:<br><a=
 href=3D"http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/topic" target=3D"_blank">http://en.w=
iktionary.org/wiki/topic</a><br>


<a href=3D"http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/subject" target=3D"_blank">http://=
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/subject</a><br>Hence my suggestion: x3 is the topic =
of x2, which is a fact [that is] understood by x1.<br></div></div></blockqu=
ote>

</div><div><br>I can think of two arguments against your suggestion of usin=
g &quot;topic&quot; vs. &quot;subject&quot;:<br>1) In the context of {jimpe=
}, the use of the word subject falls under Noun definition 2 and/or 3, and =
therefore is not any more or less vague than &quot;topic&quot;.<br>

2) The official definition of {jimpe} is:&quot;x1 understands/comprehends f=
act/truth x2 (du&#39;u) about subject x3; x1 understands (fi) x3&quot;. As =
the official definition uses &quot;subject&quot; for {lo te jimpe}, &quot;t=
opic&quot; is not a better suggestion.<br>

<br>All I&#39;ll say about &quot;fact&quot; is that it is unnecessary in th=
e definition of {lo te jimpe}; what is important is that {lo te jimpe} is a=
 subject, and that something is understood about that subject. As an exampl=
e: {lo glibau te jimpe mi}, &quot;The English language is understood by me&=
quot;.<br>

<br></div></div></blockquote><div>Two things:=A0 {lo glibau te jimpe /fi/ m=
i}. Oops.<br>&quot;x1 understands (fi) x3&quot; &lt;- Note that this is par=
t of the official definition, for cases when {lo se jimpe} is elided.<br>
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;=
 border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div></div><div class=3D"im"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 20=
4, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div>-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
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To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginners@goo=
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For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>


</div></div></blockquote></div></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><div></div>=
<div class=3D"h5"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.a&#39;o.e=
&#39;e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu<br><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi=
&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.a&#39;o.e&#39;e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu<br>=
<br>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
/>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=
googlegroups.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
-beginners?hl=3Den.<br />



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