Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61])
	by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncCML0xpmUARC-mJXgBBoEmNR-uQ@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1OJVrl-0002RW-UC; Tue, 01 Jun 2010 11:07:18 -0700
Received: by gwaa12 with SMTP id a12sf5736882gwa.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Tue, 01 Jun 2010 11:06:56 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received
         :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received
         :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
         :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:reply-to
         :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive
         :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=2teRzQnc0diwRTPtIqe6nzMqvL/iR2F0IOBb3z1nr2Q=;
        b=5UxXbISv3umatupWFcg8R/o5pYzHSJ1DExeFiFcjgfKXipmFsyLE3wfilp0W5cam/3
         glrvm/coFVR2AXK5RtaNQ6nZ4Il821+8fLczGgqd37ktPzpqZv0icoL8UrBF6qM6YCbv
         6WYr7ssaqnEJRtjln9GYo87gIC3RDHkxxVpoE=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
         :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-authentication-results
         :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id
         :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe
         :list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        b=1CTLHFcuOg3/lViqw3yEEX2aX6e76p8nYNz13VoLx1Tq+taHQDsETp7iiDQ4nmAwex
         xsRkceGecnnG0r5KzP3+woptHE7sa38NCfYF3bb5syFcY16iseE+/yR6wViN9PC050fT
         jD3FkmiR4rl2KCHtmTnqHKcE0P5ZRf3EwdySY=
Received: by 10.101.175.14 with SMTP id c14mr189153anp.34.1275415614358;
        Tue, 01 Jun 2010 11:06:54 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.101.11.8 with SMTP id o8ls1588712ani.6.p; Tue, 01 Jun 2010 
	11:06:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.101.180.38 with SMTP id h38mr2192664anp.33.1275415613248;
        Tue, 01 Jun 2010 11:06:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.101.180.38 with SMTP id h38mr2192659anp.33.1275415612652;
        Tue, 01 Jun 2010 11:06:52 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-yw0-f175.google.com (mail-yw0-f175.google.com [209.85.211.175])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id z17si5494746ank.5.2010.06.01.11.06.51;
        Tue, 01 Jun 2010 11:06:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.211.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.211.175;
Received: by mail-yw0-f175.google.com with SMTP id 5so4111285ywh.13
        for <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>; Tue, 01 Jun 2010 11:06:51 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.229.186.142 with SMTP id cs14mr1102895qcb.10.1275415611178; 
	Tue, 01 Jun 2010 11:06:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.229.142.6 with HTTP; Tue, 1 Jun 2010 11:06:51 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim03SDW3DzhjgWug8pWBFnzJmloWQrLj4WIiky_@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimV1fv1-McjlXuA1jXwnz0nzLnH9Qb6nWJoRP_Z@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTim03SDW3DzhjgWug8pWBFnzJmloWQrLj4WIiky_@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 14:06:51 -0400
Message-ID: <AANLkTilbA737Ef4-XqL3Kzn54XppNt-S-gDO13Qmu7-2@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Something is place xi because...
From: Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: 
	domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.211.175 as permitted 
	sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) 
	header.i=@gmail.com
X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact 
	lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, 
	<mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>, 
	<mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>, 
	<mailto:lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163630ff457201da0487fbd6da
Content-Length: 5767

--00163630ff457201da0487fbd6da
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Can you explain a little more about them not being what I want to say?

Also, how does that work exactly? The x3 itself is justified, but here the
x3 would be a number (in my example 0)...in what sense can 0 be justified?

mu'o mi'e latros.

On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 6:31 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 12:20 AM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Is there a (preferably compact) way to say not:
>> {ko'a broda ko'e ko'i} because ....
>> but instead:
>> {ko'a broda ko'e ko'i} and {ko'i} is the x3 of broda because ...
>>
>> The specific situation I'm thinking of is with {pacna}, justifying why the
>> x3 is what it is. I was saying something like "x1 hopes for x2 with expected
>> outcome x3 and the expected outcome is what it is because ..." Saying that
>> the {pacna} predicate as a whole is justified by this thing isn't quite
>> right, because the x1 doesn't hope for x2 for that reason, and in fact the
>> reason x1 would hope for x2 would probably be a {se mukti}, whereas this
>> reason might be, say, a {se rinka} (perhaps if x1 hopes for a physical
>> impossibility, which is what came up in this case).
>>
>> mu'o mi'e latros.
>>
>>
>   ko'a broda ko'e ko'i poi se rinka/mukti ...  Seems to be he most
> straightforward, I guess, but your particular examples seems to not really
> be what you want to say....
>
>              --gejyspa
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Lojban Beginners" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> .
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.


--00163630ff457201da0487fbd6da
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Can you explain a little more about them not being what I want to say?<br><=
br>Also, how does that work exactly? The x3 itself is justified, but here t=
he x3 would be a number (in my example 0)...in what sense can 0 be justifie=
d?<br>
<br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e latros.<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun=
 1, 2010 at 6:31 AM, Michael Turniansky <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:mturniansky@gmail.com">mturniansky@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im">On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at=
 12:20 AM, Ian Johnson <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:blindbravado=
@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">blindbravado@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<=
br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(20=
4, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">

Is there a (preferably compact) way to say not:<br>{ko&#39;a broda ko&#39;e=
 ko&#39;i} because .... <br>but instead:<br>{ko&#39;a broda ko&#39;e ko&#39=
;i} and {ko&#39;i} is the x3 of broda because ...<br><br>The specific situa=
tion I&#39;m thinking of is with {pacna}, justifying why the x3 is what it =
is. I was saying something like &quot;x1 hopes for x2 with expected outcome=
 x3 and the expected outcome is what it is because ...&quot; Saying that th=
e {pacna} predicate as a whole is justified by this thing isn&#39;t quite r=
ight, because the x1 doesn&#39;t hope for x2 for that reason, and in fact t=
he reason x1 would hope for x2 would probably be a {se mukti}, whereas this=
 reason might be, say, a {se rinka} (perhaps if x1 hopes for a physical imp=
ossibility, which is what came up in this case).<br>


<br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e latros.<br><font color=3D"#888888">

<p></p>

</font></blockquote></div><div><br>=A0 ko&#39;a broda ko&#39;e ko&#39;i poi=
 se rinka/mukti ... =A0Seems to be he most straightforward, I guess, but yo=
ur particular examples seems to not really be what you want to say....<br>
<br>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa<br>
<br>=A0</div></div><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5">

<p></p>

-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;Lojban Beginners&quot; group.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginners@goo=
glegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-begi=
nners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban-beginners+un=
subscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>

For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>


</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
/>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=
googlegroups.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
-beginners?hl=3Den.<br />



--00163630ff457201da0487fbd6da--