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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 20:13:16 -0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: lo do ckiku ma zvati
From: Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
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This is exactly why I can't stand the idea of teaching {cu} right at the
beginning.  I still catch myself thinking things like {ta cu gerku} because
I got into the bad habbit of thinking of {cu} as being like "is"/"does".

On Jul 6, 2010 8:06 PM, "Lindar" <lindarthebard@yahoo.com> wrote:

Robin, it's because you're from the older generation. Everybody that
is actively involved in teaching (ask tomoj, kribacr, maybe even
vensa, any of the new blood) is teaching {.i lo brode ku broda} for
that very reason. It's easier to teach "you need these now and here's
a handy shortcut" rather than "here's the shortcut and later we're
going to teach you the weird exceptions when you can't use that
shortcut". It's been proven through a lot of teaching that terminators
are easier to learn when {cu} is introduced later, and for 90% of
examples, one doesn't even need it unless an abstraction is in the x1
place.

In fact, most of the new generation -does- speak that way ({.i lo
brode ku broda}) just so the newer students will see terminators being
used. We tend to actively discourage the use of {cu} unless it's
allowing elision of two or more terminators, because then students
start to internalise {cu} as English "is" or "am", and then you start
seeing confused newbies that don't actually know how to terminate that
say things like {mi cu dunda zo'e zo'e} (I have actually seen stuff
like this).

Besides, even if we -are- talking about brevity, it's the same thing.
There's no difference in length between {.i lo broda ku brode} and {.i
lo broda cu brode}, but the former develops better habits later on.


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<p>This is exactly why I can&#39;t stand the idea of teaching {cu} right at=
 the beginning.=A0 I still catch myself thinking things like {ta cu gerku} =
because I got into the bad habbit of thinking of {cu} as being like &quot;i=
s&quot;/&quot;does&quot;.</p>

<p><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Jul 6, 2010 8:06 PM, &quot;Lindar&quot; &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:lindarthebard@yahoo.com">lindarthebard@yahoo.com</a>&gt;=
 wrote:<br><br>Robin, it&#39;s because you&#39;re from the older generation=
. Everybody that<br>

is actively involved in teaching (ask tomoj, kribacr, maybe even<br>
vensa, any of the new blood) is teaching {.i lo brode ku broda} for<br>
that very reason. It&#39;s easier to teach &quot;you need these now and her=
e&#39;s<br>
a handy shortcut&quot; rather than &quot;here&#39;s the shortcut and later =
we&#39;re<br>
going to teach you the weird exceptions when you can&#39;t use that<br>
shortcut&quot;. It&#39;s been proven through a lot of teaching that termina=
tors<br>
are easier to learn when {cu} is introduced later, and for 90% of<br>
examples, one doesn&#39;t even need it unless an abstraction is in the x1<b=
r>
place.<br>
<br>
In fact, most of the new generation -does- speak that way ({.i lo<br>
brode ku broda}) just so the newer students will see terminators being<br>
used. We tend to actively discourage the use of {cu} unless it&#39;s<br>
allowing elision of two or more terminators, because then students<br>
start to internalise {cu} as English &quot;is&quot; or &quot;am&quot;, and =
then you start<br>
seeing confused newbies that don&#39;t actually know how to terminate that<=
br>
say things like {mi cu dunda zo&#39;e zo&#39;e} (I have actually seen stuff=
<br>
like this).<br>
<br>
Besides, even if we -are- talking about brevity, it&#39;s the same thing.<b=
r>
There&#39;s no difference in length between {.i lo broda ku brode} and {.i<=
br>
lo broda cu brode}, but the former develops better habits later on.<br>
<p><font color=3D"#500050"><br>-- <br>You received this message because you=
 are subscribed to the Google Groups &quot;Lojban Beginners&quot; gr...</fo=
nt></p></blockquote></p>

<p></p>

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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
/>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=
googlegroups.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
-beginners?hl=3Den.<br />



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