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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] ko curmi le nu mi ninpengau do mi
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It may also be interesting to mention that "polluted by X" and "borrowed
from X" in this case, mean similar things, and simply ascribe different
values to them.  I remember reading that lojban takes the some of best
features known in natural languages.

Why should having a distinction not found in one language be considered
negative?
4 different ways to give a reason, and several event contours are
distinctions not found in English, but I find the lojbanisms pleasantly
different.

Also, question:  I grew up speaking Russian, although I don't know the
grammar well, but I was under the impression that "cases" referred to the 6
declensions of a noun, while "aspects" refer to something similar to what
lojban calls event contours.

On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 9:36 PM, Krzysztof Sobolewski <jezuch@interia.pl>wro=
te:

> Dnia poniedzia=C5=82ek, 6 wrze=C5=9Bnia 2010 o 20:00:15 Oleksii Melnyk na=
pisa=C5=82(a):
> > 2010/9/5 Krzysztof Sobolewski <jezuch@interia.pl>
> >
> > > Yes, that's the whole idea of grammatical cases, isn't it? :)
> >
> > Have you tried to use all of the cases in one simple sentence? You'll
> found,
> > that, =E2=88=83 a lot of verbs, such that =E2=88=83 some cases, that us=
ing it in the
> simple
> > sentence with that verb gives a garbage. Take, for example, "BOJ=C4=84C=
Y SI=C4=98".
>
> That would be "ba=C4=87 si=C4=99", I think.
>
> > In
> > both of mine native lang's, using roughly a half of the available cases
> with
> > it causes nonsense. Here in lojbanistan, we say "that predicate have 2
> sumti
> > spaces". "dowiadywa=C4=87 si=C4=99" have 4, "uczy=C4=87 si=C4=99", prob=
ably, 3 (:too lazy to
> > check:).
>
> I'm not a linguist, so I'll refrain from going too far where I don't know
> what I'm talking about, sorry ;)
>
> > Most of English verbs, afaik, have not more than 2. So, "cilre" 3/2 les=
s
> > =C2=AB"polluted" by the English meaning=C2=BB, as =C2=ABby the russian=
=C2=BB =E2=80=94 it does have
> > "instrumental"(by) from "ours" languages, and just moved rarely usable
> > "dative" to "seva'u", while "raised" more frequent "from" and "about" :=
)
>
> It still looks like a confusing mix of two different concepts to me. But =
my
> understanding is polluted by Polish meanings ;)
> --
> Ecce Jezuch
> "I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired"
> - O. Osbourne
>



--=20
          Alex R

--=20
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<div dir=3D"ltr">It may also be interesting to mention that &quot;polluted =
by X&quot; and &quot;borrowed from X&quot; in this case, mean similar thing=
s, and simply ascribe different values to them.=C2=A0 I remember reading th=
at lojban takes the some of best features known in natural languages.<br>
<br>Why should having a distinction not found in one language be considered=
 negative?<br>4 different ways to give a reason, and several event contours=
 are distinctions not found in English, but I find the lojbanisms pleasantl=
y different.<br>
<br>Also, question:=C2=A0 I grew up speaking Russian, although I don&#39;t =
know the grammar well, but I was under the impression that &quot;cases&quot=
; referred to the 6 declensions of a noun, while &quot;aspects&quot; refer =
to something similar to what lojban calls event contours.<br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 9:36 PM, Krzysztof So=
bolewski <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jezuch@interia.pl">jezuch@=
interia.pl</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; p=
adding-left: 1ex;">
Dnia poniedzia=C5=82ek, 6 wrze=C5=9Bnia 2010 o 20:00:15 Oleksii Melnyk napi=
sa=C5=82(a):<br>
<div class=3D"im">&gt; 2010/9/5 Krzysztof Sobolewski &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
jezuch@interia.pl">jezuch@interia.pl</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Yes, that&#39;s the whole idea of grammatical cases, isn&#39;t it=
? :)<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Have you tried to use all of the cases in one simple sentence? You&#39=
;ll found,<br>
&gt; that, =E2=88=83 a lot of verbs, such that =E2=88=83 some cases, that u=
sing it in the simple<br>
&gt; sentence with that verb gives a garbage. Take, for example, &quot;BOJ=
=C4=84CY SI=C4=98&quot;.<br>
<br>
</div>That would be &quot;ba=C4=87 si=C4=99&quot;, I think.<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
&gt; In<br>
&gt; both of mine native lang&#39;s, using roughly a half of the available =
cases with<br>
&gt; it causes nonsense. Here in lojbanistan, we say &quot;that predicate h=
ave 2 sumti<br>
&gt; spaces&quot;. &quot;dowiadywa=C4=87 si=C4=99&quot; have 4, &quot;uczy=
=C4=87 si=C4=99&quot;, probably, 3 (:too lazy to<br>
&gt; check:).<br>
<br>
</div>I&#39;m not a linguist, so I&#39;ll refrain from going too far where =
I don&#39;t know what I&#39;m talking about, sorry ;)<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
&gt; Most of English verbs, afaik, have not more than 2. So, &quot;cilre&qu=
ot; 3/2 less<br>
&gt; =C2=AB&quot;polluted&quot; by the English meaning=C2=BB, as =C2=ABby t=
he russian=C2=BB =E2=80=94 it does have<br>
&gt; &quot;instrumental&quot;(by) from &quot;ours&quot; languages, and just=
 moved rarely usable<br>
&gt; &quot;dative&quot; to &quot;seva&#39;u&quot;, while &quot;raised&quot;=
 more frequent &quot;from&quot; and &quot;about&quot; :)<br>
<br>
</div>It still looks like a confusing mix of two different concepts to me. =
But my understanding is polluted by Polish meanings ;)<br>
<font color=3D"#888888">--<br>
Ecce Jezuch<br>
&quot;I&#39;m sick and tired of being sick and tired&quot;<br>
- O. Osbourne<br>
</font></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Alex R</div></div><br>
</div>

<p></p>

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