Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189])
	by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncCNTM-bHNDhD52qTkBBoE2CgspA@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1OtmHF-0004gY-C2; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 11:55:21 -0700
Received: by mail-gy0-f189.google.com with SMTP id 1sf1489917gya.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Thu, 09 Sep 2010 11:55:16 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received
         :received:received:received-spf:received:date:from:to:subject
         :in-reply-to:message-id:references:user-agent:mime-version
         :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to
         :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive
         :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=PzLtnEE5N9xAknKlAbSFPYnz+53gedSNVz5SB4dxIRM=;
        b=yNTEs2kfuddJQdn6IzI6vRl0/+8GArU+Tl9ExtPOKhrX7RSf0VBIKzjj/6cUhEkA0t
         MQdXjl2LwAnH90MYwA2Sh7AphfrXT4TWZYpQT2Be2RBQZkNaWnWnbPlzswEsJ3fyavCw
         upSpLXfczs8qSH4HMGCs7htTKFVwIWowFAniw=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to
         :message-id:references:user-agent:mime-version:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe
         :list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        b=Ln5A5I8lH5V53kGPlQRqNjNu6jQs6LiesTS58tSIPj8H7HdXOvL7PZUjqLNyCkUYCY
         y2+JCPckXb8ksEiN+Z02AtgXxVgpY+h/2AoZHQu0vZTNtmtLZsLh+hvxgzKltBOfqdPO
         s+fgSkMSr9UuQoKiZOmKmOi6eLKYf//AIXKR8=
Received: by 10.91.53.12 with SMTP id f12mr1426155agk.30.1284058489731;
        Thu, 09 Sep 2010 11:54:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.150.17.13 with SMTP id 13ls2977752ybq.3.p; Thu, 09 Sep 2010
 11:54:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.150.192.6 with SMTP id p6mr2528081ybf.27.1284058489293;
        Thu, 09 Sep 2010 11:54:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.231.161.81 with SMTP id q17mr1001950ibx.12.1284050877086;
        Thu, 09 Sep 2010 09:47:57 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.231.161.81 with SMTP id q17mr1001949ibx.12.1284050877067;
        Thu, 09 Sep 2010 09:47:57 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail.cec.wustl.edu (express.cec.wustl.edu [128.252.21.16])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id z11si902059ibb.4.2010.09.09.09.47.56;
        Thu, 09 Sep 2010 09:47:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 128.252.21.16 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of adam@pubcrawler.org) client-ip=128.252.21.16;
Received: from grid.cec.wustl.edu (grid.cec.wustl.edu [128.252.20.97])
	(using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
	(Client did not present a certificate)
	by mail.cec.wustl.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A81DD1E8052;
	Thu,  9 Sep 2010 11:47:56 -0500 (CDT)
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 11:47:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Adam D. Lopresto" <adam@pubcrawler.org>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Pure-Lojban Dictionary definitions
In-Reply-To: <20100906020707.GA36971@alice.local>
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1009091144290.20619@grid.cec.wustl.edu>
References: <20100906020707.GA36971@alice.local>
User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (LRH 1167 2008-08-23)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Original-Sender: adam@pubcrawler.org
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com:
 128.252.21.16 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain
 of adam@pubcrawler.org) smtp.mail=adam@pubcrawler.org
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Length: 2196

On Sun, 5 Sep 2010, Alan Post wrote:

> I've been exploring the Pure-Lojban dictionary.  I'm not able to use
> jbofihe to parse the definitions in this dictionary, I presume
> because of the use of x1, x2, ... xN.  Here is the Pure-Lojban definition
> of {dunda}:
>
>  http://www.lojban.org/cgi-bin/dict.pl?Form=dict.pl1&Query=dunda&Strategy=*&Database=jbo-%3Ejbo&submit=Submit+query
>
> Will someone help me read the definition:
>
>  {x1 noi ponse x2 cu gasnu lo nu x3 co'a ponse x2}
>
> I'm exploring ways in which I can extend {valsi porsi} (Craig's
> Lists) in {lo do ckiku ma zvati} ("Where are your Keys?") to include
> not only the gismu, but the places (predicate arguments) for each gismu
> as well.
>
> I was hoping the Pure-Lojban dictionary would provide a hint as to
> how I might talk about these places,  so I was surprised to see what
> appear to be ungrammatical definitions.

Yeah, the xN shortcuts have always bugged me, too.

> Can someone share a) an understanding of how the definition of {dunda}
> might be translated into something jbofihe can parse

I tend to prefer using {ce'u}, since it's pretty much ideal for this purpose.
So in a context where just a definition is expected, we'd use something like

ce'u xi pa noi ponse ce'u xi re cu gasnu lo nu ce'u xi ci co'a ponse ce'u xi
re

If we wanted write the complete definition, use something like

lo su'u dunda cu su'u ce'u xi pa noi ponse ce'u xi re cu gasnu lo nu ce'u xi
ci co'a ponse ce'u xi re


b) help me
> describe the "beg, borrow, steal" list to include predicate
> arguments as well as the predicate forms themselves?  (this might be
> easier to do with the {skari} list:
>
>  http://lodockikumazvati.org/valsi_porsi/gismu/skari/
>
> Thank you!
>
> -Alan
>

-- 
Adam Lopresto
http://cec.wustl.edu/~adam/

Dogs have owners.  Cats have staff.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.