Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Oug3G-0004fa-J2; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 23:28:38 -0700 Received: by qyk12 with SMTP id 12sf4598895qyk.16 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 23:28:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received :received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=ZrFEhIWAjAzKrVhPljnv7zpph5iSlMz7rqk+5QRqlN0=; b=xQeK1TwO8dtOZlNYVgdsDEYZgp/QYiIgwkORiIT6pNOMHmrv4U4dpQ+ljWFTsxRlr5 T5gtuQeDmbtL65FtzKAajvd8pUKWQkLR5NPIRvM82I9UQ5EhiN3ID90mKl2Xgje7u//u OZwW9ngG7ShdD+ybzCSTDu3KN2632FIGdNjcU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=kp5oS3cppedAQXEHeJqsFH+fYWIndooT7Dw4005IbzpAKBBUsH10R+vRcd7QVUW5jl ogio5nQAUAL9L930jtEHPA1X74enm5evQ2y8Fcvq5zMuocBxKX1SbgIgzAaSuyNLfRTn ABlUW+wTVeVvkhHBQWeFBQo5gP9y4gESAOOqg= Received: by 10.224.64.150 with SMTP id e22mr272131qai.46.1284272885356; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 23:28:05 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.87.217 with SMTP id x25ls1817479qal.0.p; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 23:28:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.29.4 with SMTP id o4mr170605qac.28.1284272884812; Sat, 11 Sep 2010 23:28:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.37.211 with SMTP id y61mr40705wea.14.1284112054812; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 02:47:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.37.211 with SMTP id y61mr40703wea.14.1284112054102; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 02:47:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f169.google.com (mail-wy0-f169.google.com [74.125.82.169]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id o41si805740weq.4.2010.09.10.02.47.33; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 02:47:33 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of fagricipni@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.169 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.169; Received: by wyb36 with SMTP id 36so3144557wyb.14 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 02:47:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.11.202 with SMTP id 52mr631136wex.28.1284112052879; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 02:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.63.131 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 02:47:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201009100018.55055.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <201009091416.33599.phma@phma.optus.nu> <201009100018.55055.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 05:47:32 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Best Word for Humanoid? From: "H. Felton" To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: fagricipni@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of fagricipni@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.169 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=fagricipni@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 4028 On 9/9/10, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Wednesday 08 September 2010 09:48:01 H. Felton wrote: >> x1 of the tanru selbri has to fit in x1 of the tertau: x1 is >> human -- now I see how that doesn't work. > > There is at least one exception: "xajyfi'e". According to recent genetic > tests, it is more closely related to the hippopotamus than to the pig, but > it > is a lot more like a pig than it is like a fish! I said *"tanru selbri"* not "lujvo selbri"; even the proposed lujvo for humanoid, "remsmi", does not have the place structure of "simsa"; it is the *tanru* "remna simsa" that must have the place structure of "simsa". I also remember reading that lujvo may not have all the rafsi of the words in the original expression in tanru; in particular, the rafsi for cmavo, such as "ka", may be omitted to make a shorter lujvo. I don't think then that there is any *rule* that requires the x1 of the *lujvo* to be able to be placed in the x1 of the tanru that it is derived from. It's perhaps just a personal bias of mine that I would prefer it to do so. I, also, have a personal bias about coining neologisms from English words that contain Greek and/or Latin roots. I try to replace a changed root with a root derived from the same language; eg, I have seen "tetrachromat" in common use by experts on the biological basis of vision, so when I wanted to coin a word for a hypothetical "5-chromat", I used "pentachromat", not "quinchromat"; because like the prefix "tetra", the prefix "penta" is derived from Greek. Likewise a "parhelic arc" becomes a "parselenic arc", not a "parlunic arc". (Incidentally, I don't have the objection that some people have to making words from a combination of Greek and Latin roots; eg, "automobile" from the Greek-derived "auto" and the Latin-derived "mobile"; indeed, I don't even have an objection to not following the pattern I describe; suppose that "parlunic arc" *were to be* the word used in almost all the literature on the subject, then I would follow the already established common convention; it is in *my own* synthesis of neologisms from words that have Latin and/or Greek roots that I follow the rule of preferring to replace a root by one derived from the same language.) In a similar fashion, I find that logic suggests that it is desirable for the x1 place of the lujvo to be something that could fit in to the x1 place of the expanded tanru -- including the words for which the rafsi were dropped to make a smaller lujvo; but I also don't think that it is an absolute necessity; there are cases where other considerations are more important in defining the meaning of a lujvo. On 9/10/10, Pierre Abbat wrote: > The word "xajyfi'e" is used for "porpoise" in Alice, > apparently > based on its etymology (Old French "pourpois" from Vulgar > Latin "porcopiscis"). First, I think that it is mal-something to use the etymology of the word in another language as the sole justification for the choice of rafsi to build the lujvo from. On 9/9/10, Pierre Abbat wrote: > There is at least one exception: "xajyfi'e". According to recent genetic > tests, it is more closely related to the hippopotamus than to the pig, but > it > is a lot more like a pig than it is like a fish! However, if one accepts the derivation from "xarju", I'd have to say that *popularly* that a porpoise is indeed regarded as more like a fish than pig, but one has to remember that the average member of the public is *at best* barely conscious of the fact that porpoises (and similar animals, like dolphins) are air-breathers -- never mind any more esoteric details. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.