Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Ow8Ny-00054I-Ih; Wed, 15 Sep 2010 23:56:02 -0700 Received: by gwb11 with SMTP id 11sf970600gwb.16 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2010 23:55:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=PVIKqH7xXjMtfHwq9ikbdB9psvPNZktGycH1lBwGHj8=; b=atorlJY+npbn2l6zHb/2Xzo1/OjXMp2ZmC7cpv9rPJ0MvISO/1VinNssL9LUv44eIm svZAZfZOGpgyIsq6Y7ogUPd/zQWvW8iS1TUaSWBB9Vkr2RfSEsc9P6n7Zcniu818JNZc N/MtVMp8rsDtaL6AXx5QL+009j3E8ilaTNmW4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=ipgEI933fuvzM2FGdq7ohq47+PINhGTVIgz0ZdDyjBqgJr06LxiS+Wvn8vJYjGIYUE mOce5Vijnvp3g0VFKonHCmsbZ9Fpe09t9HQE6JS6PJ0vfGi14JEUN9Tza0svhh0tnjAn WD8n3vGAr3VrpWNvm4FKGYZtYJCC+wZAtgDGI= Received: by 10.90.3.33 with SMTP id 33mr429641agc.45.1284620128214; Wed, 15 Sep 2010 23:55:28 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.145.1 with SMTP id s1ls192488ybd.1.p; Wed, 15 Sep 2010 23:55:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.15.4 with SMTP id s4mr712188ybi.18.1284620127576; Wed, 15 Sep 2010 23:55:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.15.4 with SMTP id s4mr712187ybi.18.1284620127513; Wed, 15 Sep 2010 23:55:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gw0-f43.google.com (mail-gw0-f43.google.com [74.125.83.43]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id v6si2215157ybe.0.2010.09.15.23.55.26; Wed, 15 Sep 2010 23:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of oges007@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.43 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.83.43; Received: by mail-gw0-f43.google.com with SMTP id 18so345199gwj.30 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 2010 23:55:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.151.63.42 with SMTP id q42mr3232848ybk.258.1284620126402; Wed, 15 Sep 2010 23:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.30.195 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Sep 2010 23:55:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201009152248.22472.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 16:55:26 +1000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Cauchy sequences From: Ross Ogilvie To: lojban-beginners X-Original-Sender: oges007@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of oges007@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.43 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=oges007@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd594e44e37b204905aee38 Content-Length: 9253 --000e0cd594e44e37b204905aee38 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 But Cauchy sequences don't necessarily converge to a limit. I would say that convergence of a sequence to a limit should be a separate predicate, but my vocab isn't up to finding one. You could then indicate the limit of a Cauchy sequence with a tagged place. Ross On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Ian Johnson wrote: > That makes sense, but should that really be the x2? Or should there be > another predicate that we use to relate numbers and sequences? For example, > we could say: > x1 is a Cauchy sequence converging to limit x2 in metric space x3. > > > mi'o bazu klama ti tu zi'o > > On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > >> On Wednesday 15 September 2010 20:01:06 Ian Johnson wrote: >> > I found myself being lazy in my analysis class having to repeatedly >> write: >> > Let x in R. Suppose {x_k} is a Cauchy sequence representing x. >> > I was trying to come up with a good word to use to represent this clunky >> > relation, that is: >> > x1 is a Cauchy sequence representing the real number x2. >> > The thing I came up with first was pretty bad, but I didn't have a >> > dictionary on me. It was {listrkoci}. Once I got to a dictionary I >> thought >> > of {porsrkoci}, which seems a bit better. Does anyone have any better >> > ideas? Maybe something that isn't a fu'ivla? >> >> "porsrkoci" and "pornkoci" are both good, and are different forms of the >> same >> word (though the Book doesn't say that different rafsi of one gismu are >> equivalent, except in lujvo). The alternatives are a lujvo, which would be >> longish, and "kocis.zei.porsi", which is also longish. I'd go >> with "pornkoci". >> >> > To clarify, this should hold, if broda is assigned to this relation: >> > li pa ce'o li pa fi'u re ce'o li pa fi'u ci ce'o ... broda li no >> > (sorry that I don't know a good way to say "et cetera ad infinitum" in >> > lojban.) >> >> I think the place structure should be "x1 (sequence) is a Cauchy sequence >> in >> x1 (metric space)". I know a sequence of rational numbers which converges >> to >> +3 in the real numbers and to -3 in the 2-adic numbers. There are Cauchy >> sequences of rational numbers which don't converge to any rational number, >> and there are sequences of rational numbers which are Cauchy sequences in >> one >> metric but not in another. >> >> Pierre >> -- >> li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --000e0cd594e44e37b204905aee38 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
But Cauchy = sequences don't necessarily converge to a limit. I would say that conve= rgence of a sequence to a limit should be a separate predicate, but my voca= b isn't up to finding one. You could then indicate the limit of a Cauch= y sequence with a tagged place.

Ross

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 3:18 PM,= Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
That makes sense, but should that really be the x2? Or should there be= another predicate that we use to relate numbers and sequences? For example= , we could say:
x1 is a Cauchy sequence converging to limit x2 in= metric space x3.=A0


mi'o bazu klama ti tu zi'o
=

= On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu>= ; wrote:
On Wednesday= 15 September 2010 20:01:06 Ian Johnson wrote:
> I found myself being lazy in my analysis class having to repeatedly wr= ite:
> Let x in R. Suppose {x_k} is a Cauchy sequence representing x.
> I was trying to come up with a good word to use to represent this clun= ky
> relation, that is:
> x1 is a Cauchy sequence representing the real number x2.
> The thing I came up with first was pretty bad, but I didn't have a=
> dictionary on me. It was {listrkoci}. Once I got to a dictionary I tho= ught
> of {porsrkoci}, which seems a bit better. Does anyone have any better<= br> > ideas? Maybe something that isn't a fu'ivla?

"porsrkoci" and "pornkoci" are both good, and are= different forms of the same
word (though the Book doesn't say that different rafsi of one gismu are=
equivalent, except in lujvo). The alternatives are a lujvo, which would be<= br> longish, and "kocis.zei.porsi", which is also longish. I'd go=
with "pornkoci".

> To clarify, this should hold, if broda is assigned to this relation: > li pa ce'o li pa fi'u re ce'o li pa fi'u ci ce'o .= .. broda li no
> (sorry that I don't know a good way to say "et cetera ad infi= nitum" in
> lojban.)

I think the place structure should be "x1 (sequence) is a Cauchy= sequence in
x1 (metric space)". I know a sequence of rational numbers which conver= ges to
+3 in the real numbers and to -3 in the 2-adic numbers. There are Cauchy sequences of rational numbers which don't converge to any rational numb= er,
and there are sequences of rational numbers which are Cauchy sequences in o= ne
metric but not in another.

Pierre
--
li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa

--
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--
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--
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