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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 16:29:47 -0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] "Towards the end of..."
From: Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
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so, is there any semantic difference between {mi citka mo'u lo nu mi xagji}
and {mi mo'u citka ca lo nu mi xagji}?  Both are saying that I {mo'u citka}
and both are saying that that event happens at the time of {lo nu mi xagji}=
.

2010/10/11 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>

> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I'm having a little trouble understanding these tenses.  Probably becau=
se
> of
> > my english.  If I see {mi citka ba lo nu mi xagji} I see how {ba} is
> saying
> > that the {citka} happens "after" the event of me being hungry.  So {ba}
> > relates two things the selbri and the thing that comes after the {ba}.
>
> More precisely "mi citka ba lo nu mi xagji" is just an expanded
> version of "mi ba citka".
>
> In both cases you are saying that the eating happens after.
>
> But after what? Well, unless you specify, or context says otherwise,
> it's after the present. But you can always use a different reference
> point, like "lo nu mi xagji".
>
> >  But
> > how does that work with something like an event contour like {mo'u}?
>
> In my understanding, it's just the same. Instead of saying that the
> eating happens later, you are now saying that it gets completed. But
> later than what? Completed when? You can add that specification with a
> sumti if you want to.
>
> >  There's only one thing in the relationship of {mo'u} and it's the thin=
g
> > that is at its natural ending point.  Is it possible for X to be at it'=
s
> > natural ending point in relation to Y?  And what would that mean anyway=
?
> >  How does Y come into play with regard to the main selbri?
>
> Y would be the point at which X is completed.
>
> > I think whatever it is, I would agree with you xorxes.  A tag effects t=
he
> > main selbri, not the thing after the tag.  {mi citka mo'u lo nu mi xagj=
i}
> is
> > saying that I am at the natural ending point of eating <some
> relationship>
> > the event of me being hungry.
>
> The obvious relationship being simultaneity (for "fe'e mo'u" the
> obvious relationship would be spatial coincidence).
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>
> --
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>

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so, is there any=A0semantic=A0difference between {mi citka mo&#39;u lo nu m=
i xagji} and {mi mo&#39;u citka ca lo nu mi xagji}? =A0Both are saying that=
 I {mo&#39;u citka} and both are saying that that event happens at the time=
 of {lo nu mi xagji}.<br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2010/10/11 Jorge Llamb=EDas <span dir=3D"ltr=
">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com">jjllambias@gmail.com</a>&gt;<=
/span><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class=3D"im">On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Luke Bergen &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com">lukeabergen@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; I&#39;m having a little trouble understanding these tenses. =A0Probabl=
y because of<br>
&gt; my english. =A0If I see {mi citka ba lo nu mi xagji} I see how {ba} is=
 saying<br>
&gt; that the {citka} happens &quot;after&quot; the event of me being hungr=
y. =A0So {ba}<br>
&gt; relates two things the selbri and the thing that comes after the {ba}.=
<br>
<br>
</div>More precisely &quot;mi citka ba lo nu mi xagji&quot; is just an expa=
nded<br>
version of &quot;mi ba citka&quot;.<br>
<br>
In both cases you are saying that the eating happens after.<br>
<br>
But after what? Well, unless you specify, or context says otherwise,<br>
it&#39;s after the present. But you can always use a different reference<br=
>
point, like &quot;lo nu mi xagji&quot;.<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
&gt; =A0But<br>
&gt; how does that work with something like an event contour like {mo&#39;u=
}?<br>
<br>
</div>In my understanding, it&#39;s just the same. Instead of saying that t=
he<br>
eating happens later, you are now saying that it gets completed. But<br>
later than what? Completed when? You can add that specification with a<br>
sumti if you want to.<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
&gt; =A0There&#39;s only one thing in the relationship of {mo&#39;u} and it=
&#39;s the thing<br>
&gt; that is at its natural ending point. =A0Is it possible for X to be at =
it&#39;s<br>
&gt; natural ending point in relation to Y? =A0And what would that mean any=
way?<br>
&gt; =A0How does Y come into play with regard to the main selbri?<br>
<br>
</div>Y would be the point at which X is completed.<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
&gt; I think whatever it is, I would agree with you xorxes. =A0A tag effect=
s the<br>
&gt; main selbri, not the thing after the tag. =A0{mi citka mo&#39;u lo nu =
mi xagji} is<br>
&gt; saying that I am at the natural ending point of eating &lt;some relati=
onship&gt;<br>
&gt; the event of me being hungry.<br>
<br>
</div>The obvious relationship being simultaneity (for &quot;fe&#39;e mo&#3=
9;u&quot; the<br>
obvious relationship would be spatial coincidence).<br>
<div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes<br>
<br>
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<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

<p></p>

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