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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 15:51:31 -0600
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=ODM_xrqqUXjnYktBJ5FHoUwGZb8eCVt3HsOZ2@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] newbie question on bridi construction
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
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On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 9:17 PM, la deivyd. <david.a.imel@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I'm just starting to learn lojban -- starting with smart.fm gismu
> flash cards and reading through the (online html version of) CLL.  I
> came to something in CLL that makes me think I'm fundamentally
> misunderstanding how the grammar works, so I thought I'd de-lurk and
> ask.  (Is there a gismu for "x1 lurks on list x2"?  Just kidding.)
>

No, but there's probably a lujvo for it. (And if there isn't, someone's
bound to invent one now.)


> Example 6.1 (http://www.lojban.org/publications/reference_grammar/
> chapter7.html#e6d1<http://www.lojban.org/publications/reference_grammar/%0Achapter7.html#e6d1>
> ):
>
>  la .alis. sipna le ri kumfa
>
> says the translation is "Alice sleeps in her room."
>
> If I understand how the bridi work, I should first look at sipna
> (because kumfa has been made into a sumti by adding { le ri } in front
> of it, right?) as a "function":  sipna(x1), where x1 is
> { la .alis. }.  But the sentence, and the translation, seem to imply
> that this is sipna(x1,x2), with x2 being { le ri kumfa }.  When I look
> up sipna in my gismu references, it only seems to have an x1.  Is this
> example a mistake?  Or are my gismu lists outdated and there is an x2
> for sipna?  Or can you add sumti beyond the specified number of
> arguments to a gismu?
>
> Best to all,
>
> --David.  { la deivyd. }
>

You're right. The example's wrong. {sipna} has no spot for location. The
example should have been {la.alis. sipna ne'i lo ri kumfa}, or better,
{la.alis. [cu] sipna fi'o nenri lo kumfa pe ri [ku] [fe'u]}, which also
shows the omitted bits in [].

kumfa is a sumti because of the {le}, the {ri} in {le ri kumfa} identifies
{le kumfa} as being associated with {ri}. {ri} means "the most recent
previous sumti", which in this case is {la.alis.}.

-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do
zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 9:17 PM, la deiv=
yd. <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:david.a.imel@gmail.com">david.a=
.imel@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 20=
4); padding-left: 1ex;">
Hi All,<br>
<br>
I&#39;m just starting to learn lojban -- starting with <a href=3D"http://sm=
art.fm" target=3D"_blank">smart.fm</a> gismu<br>
flash cards and reading through the (online html version of) CLL. =A0I<br>
came to something in CLL that makes me think I&#39;m fundamentally<br>
misunderstanding how the grammar works, so I thought I&#39;d de-lurk and<br=
>
ask. =A0(Is there a gismu for &quot;x1 lurks on list x2&quot;? =A0Just kidd=
ing.)<br></blockquote><div><br>No, but there&#39;s probably a lujvo for it.=
 (And if there isn&#39;t, someone&#39;s bound to invent one now.)<br>=A0</d=
iv>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; borde=
r-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">

Example 6.1 (<a href=3D"http://www.lojban.org/publications/reference_gramma=
r/%0Achapter7.html#e6d1" target=3D"_blank">http://www.lojban.org/publicatio=
ns/reference_grammar/<br>
chapter7.html#e6d1</a>):<br>
<br>
 =A0la .alis. sipna le ri kumfa<br>
<br>
says the translation is &quot;Alice sleeps in her room.&quot;<br>
<br>
If I understand how the bridi work, I should first look at sipna<br>
(because kumfa has been made into a sumti by adding { le ri } in front<br>
of it, right?) as a &quot;function&quot;: =A0sipna(x1), where x1 is<br>
{ la .alis. }. =A0But the sentence, and the translation, seem to imply<br>
that this is sipna(x1,x2), with x2 being { le ri kumfa }. =A0When I look<br=
>
up sipna in my gismu references, it only seems to have an x1. =A0Is this<br=
>
example a mistake? =A0Or are my gismu lists outdated and there is an x2<br>
for sipna? =A0Or can you add sumti beyond the specified number of<br>
arguments to a gismu?<br>
<br>
Best to all,<br>
<br>
--David. =A0{ la deivyd. }<font color=3D"#888888"><br>
</font></blockquote></div><br>You&#39;re right. The example&#39;s wrong. {s=
ipna} has no spot for location. The example should have been {la.alis. sipn=
a ne&#39;i lo ri kumfa}, or better, {la.alis. [cu] sipna fi&#39;o nenri lo =
kumfa pe ri [ku] [fe&#39;u]}, which also shows the omitted bits in [].<br>
<br>kumfa is a sumti because of the {le}, the {ri} in {le ri kumfa} identif=
ies {le kumfa} as being associated with {ri}. {ri} means &quot;the most rec=
ent previous sumti&quot;, which in this case is {la.alis.}.<br clear=3D"all=
">
<br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.a&#39;o.e&#39;e ko cmima le=
 bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to=
 the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<br><br>

<p></p>

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Lojban Beginners" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
/>
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