} would, including using {se}, {te}, {ve}, and {xe} (the SE cmavo) to > get to the x2, x3, x4, and x5 places. > > If you're interested, there is a list of all of these BAI cmavo at > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=BPFK+Section%3A+sumtcita+Formants&no_bl=y#Some_selbri_with_a_short_fi_o-form:, > which also shows which gismu it is based on, and what it means with the > various SE as well. > > >> Thanks again -- I'm really enjoying both the language and this list. >> >> --David. { la deivyd. } >> > > I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that we are happy to help in any > way you need, and we are all more than happy that you're here. > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu > do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --90e6ba18180e523eaf0492b31237 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 8:53 PM, Jonatha= n Jones <eyeonus@= gmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 8:12 P= M, David Imel <david.a.imel@gmail.com> wrote:
All,

I've been really enjoying studying your respons= es -- thanks to all of you: =A0to Stela for the nice { fi'i }, to Pierr= e and Jonathan for pointing me to the current online CLL -- very helpful! -= - and to those and Jorge for the sipna(x1) discussion.

I admit to still being a bit confused, though reading t= hrough all your answers and looking up words I don't know is good pract= ice!=A0

Specifically,

a) Stela wrote that you can add sumti beyond the specified number for a gis= mu, but in the following conversation it seemed to be the case that you alw= ays needed a cmavo such as { fi'o }. =A0Do you? =A0Or is that "eli= dable"?

{fi'o} allows one to add an extra sumti pla= ce that doesn't normally exist for a word. The extra place is the x1 of= whatever selbri comes after the {fi'o}, such as {se nenri}. (The x1 of= {se nenri} is the x2 of {nenri}.) As an example The word {cusku} (x1 says = x2 for audience x3 via medium x4) doesn't have a place for language. We= can use {fi'o} to add that with {bangu} (x1 is a language used by x2 t= o communicate x3), so {mi ca cusku fi'o bangu la.lojban.} means "I= am not expressing in the language Lojban."

Son of a monkey. I really need to proofre= ad before I click send. "NOW expressing", not "NOT expressin= g".

It is allowable to fill in unspecified places of a word, as in the exam= ple you pointed out, but I don't think I've ever seen that done exc= ept by mistake. As Stela pointed out, any sumti in an undefined place has a= n undefined relationship with the selbri.
=A0

b) Jonathan and Jorge (sorry for using English, eventually = I'll be able to do this in Lojban I hope!) discussed the relative merit= s of { fi'o se nenri } and { ne'i }. =A0For the life of me, I canno= t find { ne'i } defined anywhere. =A0The closest thing I could find was= here: =A0htt= p://dag.github.com/cll/9/17/ where the CV'V cmavo seem to be contra= ctions of gismu. =A0Is this one of those for { nenri }? =A0And if so, does = the argument of { ne'i } refer to the x1 or x2? =A0Jonathan wrote "= ;{ ne'i } =3D { fi'o se nenri }" -- is that "definitional= " or just a paraphrase?

{ne'i} is one of the many BAI cmavo. The BA= I cmavo are all cmavo that are basically {fi'o} shortcuts, so instead o= f {fi'o se nenri}, one can say merely {ne'i}, because it has the sa= me meaning. Similarly, {bangu} has a BAI, {bau}, so in my example above I c= ould have said {mi ca cusku bau la.lojban.}, which means the same thing. Th= e most useful gismu have a BAI cmavo for them, and they operate, in most ca= ses, the same way as {fi'o <gismu>} would, including using {se}, = {te}, {ve}, and {xe} (the SE cmavo) to get to the x2, x3, x4, and x5 places= .

If you're interested, there is a list of all of these BAI cmavo at = http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=3DBPFK+Section%= 3A+sumtcita+Formants&no_bl=3Dy#Some_selbri_with_a_short_fi_o-form:,= which also shows which gismu it is based on, and what it means with the va= rious SE as well.
=A0

Thanks again -- I'm really enjoying both the language a= nd this list.

--David. =A0{ la deivyd. }
=

I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say th= at we are happy to help in any way you need, and we are all more than happy= that you're here.

--
mu'o mi'e = .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa b= u .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am you= r father. :D )

--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be = denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I= am your father. :D )

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
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