Received: from mail-pw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.160.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P7EMp-0005B0-Nn; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 14:32:42 -0700 Received: by pwi9 with SMTP id 9sf1352984pwi.16 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 14:32:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:received:received:from:to:subject:date:user-agent :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=SxfJhWEv02R+iqwsoe5BmlGQ8+j9Ir0bGniqpsCz88o=; b=j2Iu8GVGBfrPpYC4dIz0fNouSe+hfn8Z7Es2zbc32O7TDMvXZzeby8YMGU/pVq3rTK 3EGDPcUE3LKxCOZos7bZ46I+wR19/WlmEET2FwPyePwqBAA4kl3x6whfmITaYV2T89VE 742glTKLTPa1UmQlnB1vX6lFkx7A26PHK29IM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; b=ADCRNV9o6Dr5CU/baG5EThzXorg93s5b7hyjuK71Qhjlh+NXxFcR55Nr8/5zNYlth9 sSiWgKw+aiGOChF2LeLZe2ITPnSK5ZY0+2XrEo9V35f1BEgsLdOjPowYs0ZztOqoXPYc MNJOIr8Z1+TjD1pPA1ZG10L2g2+xVo5Zp+hdg= Received: by 10.142.250.38 with SMTP id x38mr61292wfh.59.1287264737308; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 14:32:17 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.2.41 with SMTP id 41ls3197626wfb.0.p; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 14:32:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.203.18 with SMTP id a18mr1332635wfg.42.1287264736573; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 14:32:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.203.18 with SMTP id a18mr1332634wfg.42.1287264736550; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 14:32:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.121]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id s21si18055310wff.4.2010.10.16.14.32.15; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 14:32:16 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.121 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.180.132.121; X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=SQrE7CeZgTJdr8c4RBvsb2m5Vl0eSzmpsK9nyVgmr9E= c=1 sm=0 a=BgghJx2RajQA:10 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:17 a=qGw5qmA0a-C2kfwcANwA:9 a=IhJ4rj-_6EyTFSbdQ9p2jJkpD9EA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.176.118.168 Received: from [75.176.118.168] ([75.176.118.168:42182] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge03.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id 26/BF-09170-FD91ABC4; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 21:32:15 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8581BE392 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 17:25:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Abstraction terminators: kei and ku Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 17:24:57 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: <52e4a1b6-47a3-45df-b5a6-8d17188c0594@w19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <52e4a1b6-47a3-45df-b5a6-8d17188c0594@w19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201010161724.59347.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.121 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Length: 1575 On Saturday 16 October 2010 16:51:04 Zifre wrote: > coi rodo > > I have been studying Lojban for about two months now. > > Lojban for Beginners says that "kei" is the terminator for > abstractions. So naturally I would guess that > > lonu mrobi'o kei xlali > > would be > > xlali > > However, jbofi'e wants me to add a "ku" after the "kei", but only if > the next word is a brivla, e.g. > > lonu mrobi'o kei pu xlali > > parses how I would expect (and the same if what follows is a sumti). I > understand that you would probably just use "cu", but what is the > logic behind this (putting events into a tanru)? What would the > original example mean ("a dying type-of bad thing")? Has this type of > construct ever been used in real Lojban? "nu mrobi'o kei" is a selbri. So is "xlali". Two selbri together form a tanru, which is also a selbri. But "pu" cannot be applied to a tertau, only to a whole selbri, so "nu mrobi'o kei pu xlali" is not a selbri. The sentence with all its terminators and separators is ".i lo nu mrobi'o vau kei ku cu pu xlali vau". (jbofi'e -ie) Yes it does mean "a dying type-of bad thing". Pierre -- lo ponse be lo mruli po'o cu ga'ezga roda lo ka dinko -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.