Received: from mail-pz0-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P8lFh-0000UD-Um; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:51:40 -0700 Received: by pzk2 with SMTP id 2sf1988005pzk.16 for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:51:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:received:received:from:to:subject:date:user-agent :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=HpDlKzWuQ/bMe41UmgddZqHdjpnniWKmB9Labilv+xM=; b=ud2GNw3Xd4q5dZwkBSgJ45xChVstXTb2a29T0nSnlxev3eL4jVV34t4Fk8AEOvZlQg hUnzEkJTk7o+y/FCN69qRwEFMtyKnaRYmhNhkMeycwCxSN7m2mrFJUkjHDwEsL/BUPX8 ZkRp4lhW/OixJ+or5K3T+D4Vpt0Z2MWAnb888= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; b=ONQWy5wkvOU3t3zllcZsULEHW+j4q9Wz2jd0lyiTGoLqZxFDNY71JuxtKpdkvlU6lV YRSP8HltxT2Hq1HwuY9SyHKSuGra8JnOFMSzMkEtpPXlyh8nBZQlgpoNgX3G1nc7WNcK ZpsgMG5SIR4U+FvysFI+47lK/s6X84M+bqBYU= Received: by 10.142.249.18 with SMTP id w18mr15447wfh.8.1287629477055; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:51:17 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.78.15 with SMTP id a15ls2417273wfb.2.p; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:51:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.162.14 with SMTP id k14mr195765wfe.60.1287629476164; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:51:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.162.14 with SMTP id k14mr195764wfe.60.1287629476122; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:51:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.120]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id p40si2151480wfc.2.2010.10.20.19.51.15; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:51:15 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.120 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.180.132.120; X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=uESSSoDEku2quKX/oFXS2Smn5+55LTFcWFr5T5T8nFs= c=1 sm=0 a=x9SJEVt9R44A:10 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=Q9fys5e9bTEA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:17 a=8YJikuA2AAAA:8 a=gccdExAP1UcTt8t3vcQA:9 a=sTCyhAXgGJHVZFuMkJdzktQqRmEA:4 a=PUjeQqilurYA:10 a=5E3qN4SbTdAA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.176.118.168 Received: from [75.176.118.168] ([75.176.118.168:34539] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 1B/36-07087-2AAAFBC4; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 02:51:15 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id D90501422B for ; Wed, 20 Oct 2010 22:51:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] lo preti be lo fu'ivla Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 22:51:09 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201010202251.12114.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.120 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Length: 1851 On Wednesday 20 October 2010 13:33:01 Geoffrey Stewart wrote: > 2 more questions: > > I have seen in places the type IV fu'ivla proposed to be used in a rafsi > form. How does that work? There are two methods in use, and they can be mixed. Jorge's method works for all fu'ivla; mine works for an infinite class, but not all, and often produces shorter lujvo. Jorge's method uses "'y" after the last vowel in the fu'ivla and before the next rafsi: anmonia + djacu -> anmonia'yjau. If the fu'ivla begins with a vowel and you want to put a rafsi before it, add "'": mikri + enri = miky'enri. My method drops the final vowel, as when forming the four-letter rafsi of a gismu, and inserts "y" when joining a fu'ivla to a following rafsi. To join a preceding rafsi to a fu'ivla, make sure the rafsi ends in a consonant, and insert "y" regardless of phonotactics. Fu'ivla that end in more than one vowel (including with apostrophes) cannot be joined to a following rafsi this way, and some fu'ivla (mu'u zo skalduna fa'u zo malgaci) cannot appear at the beginning of a lujvo because they turn into lo valsrslinku'i fa'u gimjvo. > Is there a list of fu'ivla anywhere? http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/listing.html?type=fu%27ivla There are some fu'ivla that aren't listed; for instance, five months of the Roman calendar (martio, prilio, madjio djunio, djulio) are missing because of a bug in jbofi'e. Pierre -- The Black Garden on the Mountain is not on the Black Mountain. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.