Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P98Pg-0006zS-5E; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:35:31 -0700 Received: by wwb34 with SMTP id 34sf95896wwb.16 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:35:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:mime-version:received :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=nrF6Ya5b2WSDRwYRYK0B235H+YQrm19nU8sK8A0+EH8=; b=xd7numPUzvfZwtxmmK/knd1VfRulYYsAx9gF+OKzB7MQPr53EGsVWTPFLWuYc0W/YZ s5KyVg7vbNpTgLEWsc4SSqh/D0t27OvEdzRynfCZNWMXP9briz8sMPmsRh5krSYarY8V hVLbal3oinJxyRThGLnKumN0rulAOACY9VGv8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=l+MwQmKhEv3ghn4QNg6Jc3ukdJADr0+quXYBHc+1WZFDKMw90tebhMnbkSHqjzR1Qn Jk929fdtmN5Oj0XKoIRAkpp9XyQqrJfXBfVk0GabOYkHxDymEW0XFX0RfqJQ1wZ4OsL+ WRXwSkYmmj6dIjTG8k2S5TDS+qu8QBuUBAWko= Received: by 10.216.237.9 with SMTP id x9mr307037weq.26.1287718505907; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:35:05 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.216.208.4 with SMTP id p4ls1377804weo.2.p; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:35:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.19.147 with SMTP id n19mr489748wen.8.1287718504553; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:35:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.19.147 with SMTP id n19mr489747wen.8.1287718504467; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:35:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f176.google.com (mail-wy0-f176.google.com [74.125.82.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id x80si767763weq.4.2010.10.21.20.35.03; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:35:03 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.176 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.176; Received: by mail-wy0-f176.google.com with SMTP id 36so364065wyg.35 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:35:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.138.73 with SMTP id z9mr1180808wbt.192.1287718503248; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:35:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.62.208 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:34:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Stela Selckiku Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 23:34:33 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] How to say "should" in Lojban To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: selckiku@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=selckiku@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 2040 On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:49 AM, Zifre wrote: > > nitcu, bilga, and sarcu are all similar, but they don't seem to have > quite the same connotations as the English words "should" or > "ought". You shouldn't expect to ever find any words with the same connotations as English words! In the early history of all of these words, many of them naturally attempted to gravitate towards acquiring meanings very similar to meanings in English, since nearly every speaker of Lojban was an American and the words were even given English keywords (which was later much lamented). A strong culture then developed of resisting that tendency for gismu to become English-like. The word "malglico" (now sometimes said "malgli"), which means English-related but is also a swear, was developed and used constantly. We worked hard to give distinct connotations to the gismu that don't resemble anything in English. So you'll have to learn some slightly different ideas, and be creative in how you express things. Look far past the keywords, for instance look into the later places of words to see how you can use them in unexpected ways. I agree with the suggestions other people made in this thread, in particular I first thought myself of ".ei" or "xamgu". You wouldn't think of "xamgu" for this use if you just know it as meaning "good". It's even still odd for this if you think of the slightly more accurate translation "x1 is beneficial to x2". It would be odd to say in English "Going to the market would be beneficial to me!" But it could be a very natural translation to say in Lojban "lo nu mi klama le zarci cu xamgu da'i mi". mi'e .telselkik. mu'o -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.