Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PB64a-0003Vq-6D; Wed, 27 Oct 2010 06:29:55 -0700 Received: by gwj20 with SMTP id 20sf1083131gwj.16 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2010 06:29:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:received:received:from:to:subject:date:user-agent :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; bh=l5zQ4XoEr4OE1z3z7G3cJqHwGZ5/0Ued9BOzwtvkBSs=; b=pae1UOfvIfvZc/jsYRK0ctkHTDLaYoZUzcWpEq9fS4XXzr+7vQPLCv+ZucA9X+50Ik WuL967qfsgCcqPRKyJb9/7a4EMNRt0oy//DlWvzYskrMDyeq+aybA3GP6jWokwNBXnq2 3J4zlLH0XLCWNyv4PMrHqFPgloaajxH9r6ofg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :content-disposition; b=EsoVcbjeMFYfrDTTyvVpGCZeD3UuvkNz2khNm1pKZvYFhY/YKdNapso4xxYCrbFN0m rPTidmwvyDzt1ibCZfsehyHCC7trcvvEDRqsl3VNHkq7LVhqS/lGZJ5+Nespml+P5FVp 55NHaBRjwzQEwBcUdqyqgRrLuKrP92XK4r9lk= Received: by 10.100.172.11 with SMTP id u11mr404875ane.67.1288186170170; Wed, 27 Oct 2010 06:29:30 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.39.10 with SMTP id d10ls638075ibe.3.p; Wed, 27 Oct 2010 06:29:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.11.136 with SMTP id t8mr1957070ibt.0.1288186169206; Wed, 27 Oct 2010 06:29:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.11.136 with SMTP id t8mr1957068ibt.0.1288186169140; Wed, 27 Oct 2010 06:29:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.122]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id j25si6293999ibb.0.2010.10.27.06.29.28; Wed, 27 Oct 2010 06:29:28 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.122 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.180.132.122; X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=3jtQBdTzPyV+fq4oCU/u8ZPrJJGN11HvhaDVxyWhycI= c=1 sm=0 a=ls_l1r-ntO0A:10 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:17 a=Iz0oQYXP5YPC8EhRreIA:9 a=vzwnqw76t4EljlYS40BD5gDEVtYA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.176.118.168 Received: from [75.176.118.168] ([75.176.118.168:58607] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id E3/D4-02631-73928CC4; Wed, 27 Oct 2010 13:29:28 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 394E41571E for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2010 09:29:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] mi kakne lo bajra Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 09:29:21 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References:

In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201010270929.24570.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.122 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Length: 1595 On Wednesday 27 October 2010 08:54:22 Oren wrote: > Lojban:=A0{ mi kakne lo bajra } > Parse: (x1: I) am capable of (x2 [FORCE-EVENT/STATE: "being a"] runner") > Gloss: "I'm capable of a running event" > English: (I can run) A running event, here, is not an event of running. It is an event that runs= .=20 How an event can run is not clear, so what this sentence means is not clear= . Another example of forcing: The preposition "ti'u" and the tense marker "ca= "=20 force their object to be a time. (There is a semantic difference between th= em=20 which isn't relevant to forcing.) For example: le nunpenmi be ti'u li vo pe le vanci cu fasnu ku'i ca le solnuncanci The meeting set for four in the afternoon happened instead at sunset. "ca le solnuncanci" is obvious: a sunset is an event which occurs at a=20 time. "ti'u li vo pe le vanci" is not quite so obvious: numbers neither are= =20 times nor belong to evenings. One has to refer to a clock to make sense of= =20 this. One can equally grammatically say "ca le skami", which forces the=20 computer to be a time just as "ti'u li vo" forces four to be a time. But wh= at=20 time is a computer? Pierre --=20 lo ponse be lo mruli po'o cu ga'ezga roda lo ka dinko --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.