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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 10:02:39 -0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] mi kakne lo bajra
From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
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  Part of your problem in understanding might be that, in my haste, I
dropped a word.  I apologize.  I meant to type ""x1 can do an
event/state x2  under conditions
x3".  X2 IS an event or state, regardless of what *else* it might be"
(left out the "else").  So as Pierre says, " mi kakne lo bajra" means
that the _event_ is a running/is a runner.  Maybe that means,
metaphorically, that you are capable of carrying out deeds that go by
quickly.  But it can only be understood on a metaphorical level, and
not literally, since events are not normally things that run.

     --gejyspa


On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 8:54 AM, Oren <get.oren@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the replies and explanations! The lo drata / lo nu drata
> comparison helps a great deal.
>
> But I don't yet fully comprehend "X2 IS an event or state, regardless
> of what it might be. =A0If x2=A0starts with "lo nu", "lo za'i", etc. then
> it's essentially superfluous
> (other than to clarify if it's an event or a state). =A0But if it
> doesn't such as "lo bajra", then it is an event or a state AS WELL AS
> being a runner."
>
> ...Part of me feels like, at least when we look at the English
> glosses, that the "lo drata/ lo nu drata" example has a readily
> apparent semantic difference. To help me understand the generality of
> this contrast, what precisely would be semantically different in the
> original two cases.=A0It seems to me that the two should be equivalent:
>
> Lojban:=A0{ mi kakne lo bajra }
> Parse: (x1: I) am capable of (x2 [FORCE-EVENT/STATE: "being a"] runner")
> Gloss: "I'm capable of a running event"
> English: (I can run)
>
> Lojban:=A0{ mi kakne lo nu bajra }
> Parse: (x1 I) am capable of (x2 [EXPLICIT-EVENT/STATE: "being a"] runner"=
)
> Gloss: "I'm capable of the event of (me?*) running"
> English: (I can run)
>
> ki'e .i co'o mi'e korbi
>
> On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 15:43, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>=
 wrote:
>>
>> =A0I also might not have been very clear what the difference of my a)
>> and b) above were. =A0 So let me give it some context:
>>
>> a) =A0mi bajra .i mi kakne lo drata (I am capable of a event which is di=
fferent)
>>
>> b) =A0mi bajra .i mi kakne lo nu drata. =A0(I am capable of the event of
>> me being different)
>>
>> =A0a) I am running. =A0I can do something else (besides running).
>> =A0b) I am running. =A0I can (also) be something other (than what I am,
>> presumably, but not necessarily referring to runningness).
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 --gejyspa
>
> --
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