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Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 10:07:28 -0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: mi kakne lo bajra
From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
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On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Oren <get.oren@gmail.com> wrote:
> Alright, I understand now. My confusion was motivated in part by my
> glosses seeming indistinguishable. The demonstration that {mi kakne lo
> bajra } implies {lo se kakne cu bajra } cleared this up for me a great
> deal!
>
> However, I got a bone to pick now! As someone translating the gismu
> list into Chinese, I wish I had known that the
> (parenthetical/classifiers) before sumti were (sometimes?)
> prerequisites for "sensical-ness," and not just helpful guides like
> the [square/brackets/of/synonyms] before some sumti are.
>
> I'm specifically thinking of the linked gismu list found on jbotcan
> [http://jbotcan.org/gismulinked.html], where these parenthetical
> expressions can range from as precise and seemingly "highly
> recommended" as (jo'u) or (ka), to as English and seemingly only for
> glossing purposes as (person/object), (event/state) or even (agent).
>
> I may just be missing something. Are there in fact explicit
> recommended markers for *all* (parenthetical/classifiers) on the list
> I'm referencing? That is, it seems here that "... (event/state) x2
> ..." means something like "... (use nu or za'i) x2 ..." ...do such
> cmavo-prescriptions exist for (event/property/interval/idea) too? And
> all the rest?
>
> I suspect that for things like (object/agent) we may be relying on
> gray-area "common sense" distinctions between groups of gismu (i.e.
> "Well, that makes no sense because normally tables aren't agents!"),
> and not anything formalized-- in which case, I think we should improve
> this document to make that clearer, even if it just means explicitly
> using cmavo for instances where cmavo are recommended, and leaving the
> other (gloss/classifiers) alone.
>
> Although if we all had more time, I think it would be valuable to come
> up with lists of sensical "object/agent/etc" tags for gismu.
>

  Well, with the caveat that (as I showed before with "mi kakne lo
drata") there is pretty much NEVER a place that OBLIGATES a  use of a
particular  cmavo, as the long as the sumti is in that class (simple
example, they pretty much can all take "ri" or "la'e di'u" where the
reference is of the proper class), I will start you off with
often-associated cmavo of sumti place descriptors

event  nu
state za'i
idea si'o
property/quality ka
quanitifier li
set lo'i/le'i/la'i (although in the xorlo era, lo/le is probably
acceptable) or ....ce...
quantity ni
process pu'u
                --gejyspa

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