Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PC3M3-000349-9y; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:47:55 -0700 Received: by gwj20 with SMTP id 20sf5574611gwj.16 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:47:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=2t97l/NKpA2WJ6eT9ZTT4bIvyyI4vbQSfvc3QU/RSF4=; b=ndZ8/ApvBGcTVSJNlArQv7eiJT1y95bHMYvpEKaKpy1c9wO5J+6FRK/xMrYMfw+yTl 7y6+xRmm8E1dIY9Im4I5xH7OP8d5m8NcXfLC4Rumi0G/xvyF5piQszxO+Q+XAPKbiEHb DjNwdbtCU3FnoCFNA0JEZAlHb9jCpBfSXlpdk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=gjq9UX2aVgXgz7a/tCHkZah+9k679NdVq1ukinkaSPWLAEGCQNvsgN9nVve1DbR4W+ 0tksEk6mU+6P3WxS3tGV4ieLdGtYqTago9CSVqj+S9/zJbKdpFOpYIOIx+x3PLwUixSP 7twbiKRNzI+QiqelM7LXsbv3hE61p/0qe9B9U= Received: by 10.151.115.15 with SMTP id s15mr1965574ybm.54.1288414049486; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:47:29 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.1.11 with SMTP id 11ls2008967yba.0.p; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:47:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.10.19 with SMTP id n19mr4319138ybi.10.1288414048980; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:47:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.10.19 with SMTP id n19mr4319137ybi.10.1288414048955; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:47:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gx0-f176.google.com (mail-gx0-f176.google.com [209.85.161.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id g34si1001368ybc.11.2010.10.29.21.47.27; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:47:27 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of teapot.philosopher@googlemail.com designates 209.85.161.176 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.176; Received: by gxk21 with SMTP id 21so204961gxk.35 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:47:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.91.11.15 with SMTP id o15mr5492335agi.206.1288414047714; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:47:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.65.15 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:47:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4bee0f4a-8b6e-48f1-aa68-19ec2af89a9d@y23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> References: <4bee0f4a-8b6e-48f1-aa68-19ec2af89a9d@y23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 05:47:27 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: coi rodo .i preti lo pamoi sumti i. From: Brian Shannon To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: teapot.philosopher@googlemail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of teapot.philosopher@googlemail.com designates 209.85.161.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=teapot.philosopher@googlemail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@googlemail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1346 Not sure how "le la sam pendo mi gerku" works (if it does at all) but it parses. From what I can make of it, you said "Sam's friend is a dog of breed me". "me" isn't a breed of dog though. Since "mi" doesn't form a tanru with "pendo" and the selbri can be almost anywhere in the sentence, "mi" is taking the second place of the bridi. "le la .sam. pendo cu gerku" makes sense, I think, as "Sam's friend is a dog". If "cu" wasn't there in this case though, it would be "le la .sam. pendo gerku", which would mean something like "Sam's friend-type-of dog". Perhaps meaning friendly dog? But it implies the friend-ness is related to his being a dog? I could be completely wrong about all of this. But I'm quite sure about the following. Only a selbri by itself is observative (no sumti at all). ANY missing sumti automatically mean zo'e (and hence zo'e can be used without any change in meaning) zo'e means unimportant/implied/obvious Hope that clears up some confusion, tcatipax -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.