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Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: mi kakne lo bajra
From: Lindar <lindarthebard@yahoo.com>
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Well, nandu should have the x1 place explicitly marked. It's an
abstraction!

For a dumb example...

.i lo djuno ku djuno lo se djuno

vs.

.i lo djuno ku djuno lo du'u se djuno kei ku

Example 1: Due to the fact that the x2 of djuno is a du'u, and the x1
of se djuno is a du'u, there's no abstraction necessary.

Example 2: This means something like "The knower knows that
(something) is a fact.", whereas the first example is "The knower
knows a fact.".

When abstracted places match up, no abstraction is necessary for the
example 1 meaning. Adding an abstraction changes the meaning.

That {nandu} isn't marked explicitly as having an abstracted place is
probably just an error.

xorxes: Sumti raising is sumti raising. There's no nitpicking or
arguing semantics about it. Wanting an apple for the purpose of eating
it is still sumti raising, because it's adding an implied concept of -
having-. That's what sumti raising is. =/

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