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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:35:48 +0100
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: "He was made much of at school."
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On 19 November 2010 16:26, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:

> We keep coming back to this point and I can't decide which side of the
> fence I lean towards.
>
> I read tanru as X type-of Y.  So a {barda gerku} I read as a dog which is
> of type "big" -> a big dog.
>
> But there are some that seem funny.  For instance, if I am "the most
> correct" am I fundamentally "superlative" or fundamentally "correct"? In
> other words, am I "the most (type-of) correct" or am I "correct (type-of)
> the most"?
>
> The dog is fundamentally a dog, but he is also big.  "big" and "dogness"
> are both attributes that he possesses.  How do we determine that his
> fundamental essence is "dogness" and not "bigness" though?  If we could
> quantify that I would be much happier being firmly planted on one side of
> the fence or the other.
>

In "the most correct", "the most" explains how "correct" you are, not the
other way 'round. Therefore what's essential there is correctness, not
superlativeness (although in this example it makes little sense because you
can't be more and less correct, you can be correct or not correct, but let's
play along). Which of these is more essential is rather simple to test -
leave one of the two out and see which version is closer to the meaning of
the original sentence. In this example:

"I am the most correct."

1) "I am the most."
2) "I am correct."

2 is closer in meaning to the original than 1 (plus 1 doesn't really make
sense), therefore "correct" is more essential than "the most".

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<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 19 November 2010 16:26, Luke Bergen <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com">lukeabergen@gmail.com=
</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-lef=
t: 1ex;">
We keep coming back to this point and I can&#39;t decide which side of the =
fence I lean towards.<div><br></div><div>I read tanru as X type-of Y. =A0So=
 a {barda gerku} I read as a dog which is of type &quot;big&quot; -&gt; a b=
ig dog.</div>

<div><br></div><div>But there are some that seem funny. =A0For instance, if=
 I am &quot;the most correct&quot; am I fundamentally &quot;superlative&quo=
t; or fundamentally &quot;correct&quot;? In other words, am I &quot;the mos=
t (type-of) correct&quot; or am I &quot;correct (type-of) the most&quot;?</=
div>

<div><br></div><div>The dog is fundamentally a dog, but he is also big. =A0=
&quot;big&quot; and &quot;dogness&quot; are both attributes that he possess=
es. =A0How do we determine that his fundamental essence is &quot;dogness&qu=
ot; and not &quot;bigness&quot; though? =A0If we could quantify that I woul=
d be much happier being firmly planted on one side of the fence or the othe=
r.</div>
</blockquote><div><br>In &quot;the most correct&quot;, &quot;the most&quot;=
 explains how &quot;correct&quot; you are, not the other way &#39;round. Th=
erefore what&#39;s essential there is correctness, not superlativeness (alt=
hough in this example it makes little sense because you can&#39;t be more a=
nd less correct, you can be correct or not correct, but let&#39;s play alon=
g). Which of these is more essential is rather simple to test - leave one o=
f the two out and see which version is closer to the meaning of the origina=
l sentence. In this example:<br>
<br>&quot;I am the most correct.&quot;<br><br>1) &quot;I am the most.&quot;=
<br>2) &quot;I am correct.&quot;<br><br>2 is closer in meaning to the origi=
nal than 1 (plus 1 doesn&#39;t really make sense), therefore &quot;correct&=
quot; is more essential than &quot;the most&quot;.<br>
</div></div>

<p></p>

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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
/>
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-beginners?hl=3Den.<br />



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