Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189])
	by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncCOjSjrXVGBDv1ZrnBBoE_GIJeQ@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1PJUB6-0004V1-R5; Fri, 19 Nov 2010 08:51:15 -0800
Received: by gxk1 with SMTP id 1sf2949209gxk.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Fri, 19 Nov 2010 08:51:06 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received
         :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received
         :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
         :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to
         :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive
         :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=KrJ/qj2Q+6qIHk/724gqV7m8boAzreLbxeMhW/YMcsY=;
        b=P80yre8rfpz0Uwo20Dy4k9IK+3gDj8DAAxRoLynsyQfZK57m19byIrVRz4JR0kNe8i
         nNEOcrXqhdJP0q2oskbkSSgaQ6NOp89AkLQQH7jNGnJAnU8cEttx+A5gGDy6o23WLs03
         Aqc2GLxEE9KuDTXozjFb9H6N0rltTlwRGwy4o=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
         :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe
         :list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        b=TL/pDdVuCA0sUnXHBjJP1iKXoI7BOE76RBn+6x2KaY80RqocD/I7wLanXrmOSrPRk/
         zge7edvRGTIXMaumhn1X3zmJgN5Ni222HtthnS5/lkouz/w9gr9pU8EYy3+JJFgYGkeT
         z6Uekxm2fjP+TJN0Zmzd8zzlnFRIW78JMyUCg=
Received: by 10.90.138.6 with SMTP id l6mr184947agd.47.1290185455551;
        Fri, 19 Nov 2010 08:50:55 -0800 (PST)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.231.180.73 with SMTP id bt9ls580782ibb.0.p; Fri, 19 Nov 2010
 08:50:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.231.19.136 with SMTP id a8mr679429ibb.19.1290185454631;
        Fri, 19 Nov 2010 08:50:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.231.19.136 with SMTP id a8mr679427ibb.19.1290185454574;
        Fri, 19 Nov 2010 08:50:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-iw0-f180.google.com (mail-iw0-f180.google.com [209.85.214.180])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id bm7si772628ibb.2.2010.11.19.08.50.53;
        Fri, 19 Nov 2010 08:50:53 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.180 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.180;
Received: by mail-iw0-f180.google.com with SMTP id 37so4970390iwn.39
        for <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>; Fri, 19 Nov 2010 08:50:53 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.231.11.3 with SMTP id r3mr2299556ibr.53.1290185453068; Fri, 19
 Nov 2010 08:50:53 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.231.114.142 with HTTP; Fri, 19 Nov 2010 08:50:53 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=p5xSoKL9=7R-mmABnLz72CxxGi4EAq+5L4g84@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinAK-vxwSMvZx5s6uwt+d8kkvA5_t4eSe7z+UtK@mail.gmail.com>
	<ce331c63-bbbd-458e-9aac-5885d6567b46@j5g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>
	<AANLkTi=ou=RiJCW_S9aE175GVjDuwYOmRMPAi7-bryX8@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikCM=Ysn8+pA=O5h7hSsKLq0Q4yBUcqeGKYyKkd@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=decxmuk3PMKNXfTup_=zAkM+fpQXy=63HSzJj@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinr75iP7agQ1e+xuw+=PC8_ijPC=PJ5DuZr_YT5@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimcAHbeZG8ab4fW4ESckKdNoiMAdyi2L21UdShX@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=p5xSoKL9=7R-mmABnLz72CxxGi4EAq+5L4g84@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 11:50:53 -0500
Message-ID: <AANLkTinHt=OWPKW_sE3pOYDmvzdVp6TzPPhM=H4pt7KY@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: "He was made much of at school."
From: Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.180 as permitted
 sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0022152d67299fe46b04956ab5ca
Content-Length: 7381

--0022152d67299fe46b04956ab5ca
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Actually it means that he is the most at being the most :-p

But you catch my drift.  It seems like there are many lujvo that maybe have
an elided {je} and there's really no telling whether it's a {broda zei
brode} or a {brode zei broda}.  Or maybe the difference between the two
is negligible.

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Michael Turniansky
<mturniansky@gmail.com>wrote:

>   Pretty good argument.  But there is one problem with that.  "la tam cu
> barda fi lo gerku" means that Tom is big for a dog, but it doesn't mean that
> he necessarily IS a dog.  He could be a chicken who is bigger than an
> average dog.  Whereas "la tam cu traji lo ka traji" means that Tom is both
> superlative and correct.
>
>           --gejyspa
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> see herein lies the confusion (for me anyway).  I could use a similar
>> argument about lo barda gerku.  {barda} has an x3 place for the "norm"
>> compared against which the object is big.  {gerku} has no place to denote
>> size, so maybe it should be {lo gerku barda}?  I'm reductio ad absurdam-ing
>> here so don't take this as a proposal that "the big dog" should be
>> translated "lo gerku barda".  I'm just trying to get my finger on the
>> precise way of deciding what the "principle" component of a tanru *should
>> * be.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Ivo Doko <ivo.doko@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>  On 19 November 2010 17:17, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>    That may be the case in English but in lojban, we have the fact that
>>>> "traji" carries with it a property piece, wheras "drani" does not carry with
>>>> it a corresponding "degree" piece.  Therefore, it behooves us in lojban to
>>>> make "traji" the main bridi in that case.
>>>>                         --gejyspa
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well then that.
>>>
>>>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Lojban Beginners" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
> .
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.


--0022152d67299fe46b04956ab5ca
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Actually it means that he is the most at being the most :-p<div><br>But you=
 catch my drift. =A0It seems like there are many lujvo that maybe have an e=
lided {je} and there&#39;s really no telling whether it&#39;s a {broda zei =
brode} or a {brode zei broda}. =A0Or maybe the difference between the two i=
s=A0negligible.<br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Michael Tu=
rniansky <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mturniansky@gmail.com">mtu=
rniansky@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"=
>
<div>=A0 Pretty good argument.=A0 But there is one problem with that.=A0 &q=
uot;la tam cu barda fi lo gerku&quot; means that Tom is big for a dog, but =
it doesn&#39;t mean that he necessarily IS a dog.=A0 He could be a chicken =
who is bigger than an average dog.=A0 Whereas &quot;la tam cu traji lo ka t=
raji&quot; means that Tom is both superlative and correct.</div>


<div>=A0</div>
<div>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa</div><div><div></div><div class=
=3D"h5">
<div><br><br>=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Luke Bergen <s=
pan dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">lukeabergen@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"border-left:#ccc 1px solid;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;pa=
dding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">see herein lies the confusion (for me=
 anyway). =A0I could use a similar argument about lo barda gerku. =A0{barda=
} has an x3 place for the &quot;norm&quot; compared against which the objec=
t is big. =A0{gerku} has no place to denote size, so maybe it should be {lo=
 gerku barda}? =A0I&#39;m reductio ad absurdam-ing here so don&#39;t take t=
his as a proposal that &quot;the big dog&quot; should be translated &quot;l=
o gerku barda&quot;. =A0I&#39;m just trying to get my finger on the precise=
 way of deciding what the &quot;principle&quot; component of a tanru <i>sho=
uld</i>=A0be.=20
<div>
<div></div>
<div><br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Ivo Doko <span=
 dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ivo.doko@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">iv=
o.doko@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"border-left:#ccc 1px solid;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;pa=
dding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 19 November 2010 17:17, Michael Turniansky <s=
pan dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mturniansky@gmail.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">mturniansky@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:=A0=20
<blockquote style=3D"border-left:rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid;margin:0pt 0pt =
0pt 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>=A0 That may be the case in English but in lojban, we have the fact th=
at &quot;traji&quot; carries with it a property piece, wheras &quot;drani&q=
uot; does not carry with it a corresponding &quot;degree&quot; piece.=A0 Th=
erefore, it behooves us in lojban to make &quot;traji&quot; the main bridi =
in that case.</div>


<div>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =
--gejyspa</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>Well then that.=20
<div>
<div></div>
<div><br>
<p></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div>

<p></p>

-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;Lojban Beginners&quot; group.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginners@goo=
glegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-begi=
nners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban-beginners+un=
subscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>

For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/g=
roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>


</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Lojban Beginners" group.<br />
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<br =
/>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@=
googlegroups.com.<br />

For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban=
-beginners?hl=3Den.<br />



--0022152d67299fe46b04956ab5ca--