Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61])
	by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72)
	(envelope-from <lojban-beginners+bncCIycn8S8DhDZtM7oBBoEoQfogg@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1PVqH1-0002O4-JX; Thu, 23 Dec 2010 10:52:28 -0800
Received: by qwd6 with SMTP id 6sf12294171qwd.16
        for <multiple recipients>; Thu, 23 Dec 2010 10:52:17 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received
         :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received
         :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
         :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to
         :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive
         :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=EjiqPrVRMKgCZ/ltSe+I8aEgIjlIi0csh7lqMpZ5r6g=;
        b=f6Tb5MUzmTdHSXGwDrf7IlPVyVcY08KAwjyZp4aC7GagBrywCI1RHckIieG/7innrm
         8T0uAasefWIC/2jKGccc39bQhPh78sxcI9MkTObalP7tB++/HNAFC1sdhTcthQBTmyJ5
         RSBmv0xd3n3HU6m6s0uFQfWo1bz8fHAy/ehAI=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=beta;
        h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
         :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe
         :list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        b=0Fpn+ua/VlHAuyDI4vVobrGneCVpoNc8SgeN/JoTiBwCKaSm3+Rb+JiuymhksY/75H
         rf20HM03waa7d+bBdvdtGGS0XTv8GOlVvQq/C/wfve15cy+wGZhL8UD03TZHsiH4ICc7
         Ayt+NnR1FBBb9quG/cFgxKaWz1bETZcmwKA1Y=
Received: by 10.229.136.204 with SMTP id s12mr1005006qct.8.1293130329213;
        Thu, 23 Dec 2010 10:52:09 -0800 (PST)
X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.229.80.196 with SMTP id u4ls2887550qck.0.p; Thu, 23 Dec 2010
 10:52:08 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.229.31.73 with SMTP id x9mr986587qcc.11.1293130328564;
        Thu, 23 Dec 2010 10:52:08 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.229.31.73 with SMTP id x9mr986586qcc.11.1293130328537;
        Thu, 23 Dec 2010 10:52:08 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-qy0-f175.google.com (mail-qy0-f175.google.com [209.85.216.175])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k7si1409082qcu.14.2010.12.23.10.52.07
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5);
        Thu, 23 Dec 2010 10:52:07 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.175;
Received: by mail-qy0-f175.google.com with SMTP id 8so6963553qyk.13
        for <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>; Thu, 23 Dec 2010 10:52:07 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.229.223.139 with SMTP id ik11mr7298892qcb.265.1293130327240;
 Thu, 23 Dec 2010 10:52:07 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.229.212.1 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Dec 2010 10:52:07 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=nRJ6mzGvn1wFibuquTMMJQtvwGKPATg3jKhrE@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimVRF6ctfz7Z5oPxB9c+bEqxUv-9K2KaD81ZVbh@mail.gmail.com>
	<201012222138.03564.phma@phma.optus.nu>
	<AANLkTi=nRJ6mzGvn1wFibuquTMMJQtvwGKPATg3jKhrE@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 13:52:07 -0500
Message-ID: <AANLkTim-CFWyObwODE1sHdNfaT_Xe2X9ON89v7BbAUXT@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] taxonomic .a descriptive
From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com:
 domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.175 as permitted
 sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com
Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <lojban-beginners.googlegroups.com>
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/post?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/?hl=en_US>, <mailto:lojban-beginners+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en_US>
Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners/subscribe?hl=en_US>,
 <mailto:lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Length: 4658

  Read the definition of tirxu again.. it's "
tiger/leopard/jaguar/[tigress] of species/breed x2 with  coat markings
x3."  That is to say, any big cat outside of a lion, distinguished by
coat markings.  So, yes cheetah fits into that.  And he took his
"claw" cue from the Linnaean name (although yeah, I probably would
have gone with "fast" myself).
      --gejyspa



On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 1:45 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 7:38 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
>>
>> On Wednesday 22 December 2010 20:10:17 Jonathan Jones wrote:
>> > I have recently been thinking about a subject about which, in the past,
>> > I
>> > have been very vocal about, that being Lojban names for various species.
>> > At
>> > this time, there are basically two ways we do things, which I refer to
>> > as
>> > taxonomic, i.e. basing the lojban name upon the Linnaean (did I spell
>> > that
>> > right?) name, such as {bramlatu la.*acinonyx.jubatus.*} (big-cat of
>> > species
>> > *Acinonyx jubatus)*, and descriptive, i.e. basing the name on it's
>> > distinguishing characteristics, such as {bramlatu la traji sutra}
>> > (basically - big-cat of species "The Fastest"), both of which are what
>> > we
>> > call, in English, the Cheetah.
>>
>> There is a third way, which is to make a fu'ivla from some natlang (or
>> two, in
>> the case of "makpapi"). Many common names in natlangs (especially Romance
>> languages) are related to the Linnaean name, in which case two approaches
>> may
>> result in the same Lojban word. E.g. "cipnrfalko" and "falkoni" could be
>> from
>> the genus name "Falco" or from any of several natlang descendants of the
>> Latin word.
>>
>> > So, the poll is, what is your personal preference for species' names,
>> > and
>> > why? Do you prefer taxonomic, descriptive, neither both, either
>> > depending
>> > on circumstances, etc. etc., and what are your reasons?
>>
>> All three, including having all of them for some living things, such
>> as "arxokuna" (from some rindo bangu), "prokiono", and "lumge'u" (although
>> it's not in the dog family, nor in the bear family, despite the similar
>> German word).
>>
>> > Please do not be afraid to speak up, because the point of this is to get
>> > a
>> > reading of the community. I am very curious, and the more of you who
>> > answer
>> > - and the more detailed your answer is - the happier I will be, even if
>> > the
>> > majority opinion is decidedly opposite of my own (, which is part of the
>> > reason why I have been careful to avoid expressing mine in this
>> > message.)
>> >
>> > Also, I would love to see other examples of Lojban names for things,
>> > such
>> > as, if anyone has another idea for what to call a Cheetah, or a
>> > Red-tailed
>> > Hawk (which is actually a buzzard, I recently learned), or any other
>> > creature.
>>
>> I call it "ja'urtirxu", as it is a big cat with markings with something
>> different about its claws (though they are not immobile, despite the genus
>> name). Don't know about the red-tailed hawk.
>>
>> Pierre
>> --
>> Jews use a lunisolar calendar; Muslims use a solely lunar calendar
>
> I am kind of surprised that you went with "claw-tiger", because in my mind,
> the most distinguishing thing about the cheetah is that it's really fricking
> fast, not that it has claw weirdness (, which I didn't even know about until
> you mentioned it,) and cheetahs are spotted, not striped like a tiger. I can
> see how it makes sense, but I don't think I would have connected
> {ja'urtirxu} to "cheetah" unless someone told me.
>
> As for the red-tailed hawk, I personally would call it {zerle'a cfipu la
> xunre rebla}, as "raptor" means "thief", and hawks are a kind of raptor.
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do
> zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Lojban Beginners" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.