Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Pi7Ji-00030N-8q; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:30:00 -0800 Received: by qyl38 with SMTP id 38sf2771116qyl.16 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:29:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=X3DyHr1IvnSMluenXcvBFWKAH4fr9WJmBuSrAkzOf18=; b=yHbK6BMsVRP4+3eu+qWfKbbugV6UtG5QGJSwYI4g6p1q0mQ+iL8SDPyGqWJD4m2ocz 1KGXdmegHOGJ9sR61DXP0b77RGNCQZzYKHL6O+PtVcDS2+6QcR24xIweaR8YXd4EuaVx dn4qdmbq5yXy1HN2F2gi51ICiBa1VRlpGwtHA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=INQWu/pip415iT76Q9DqBYXV1ZSJF+dWxKQT3G9169+3xkNQ23Uge6YGDbehk89NiH qKGtKXavOjBOIEYjWmmD9AeqXq1d3NpAFzai4k9A4Kf92Dgw/5WvrQXwzqoLE01pRZb3 ekA7Fnc9HtnGXxlLxpm/FoEjgvPoZowRm+Jv0= Received: by 10.229.19.84 with SMTP id z20mr72587qca.2.1296055776307; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:29:36 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.80.196 with SMTP id u4ls239899qck.0.p; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:29:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.32.14 with SMTP id a14mr71199qcd.20.1296055774982; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:29:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.32.14 with SMTP id a14mr71198qcd.20.1296055774938; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:29:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qw0-f51.google.com (mail-qw0-f51.google.com [209.85.216.51]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p18si990416qcg.8.2011.01.26.07.29.33 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:29:33 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.51 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.51; Received: by qwg5 with SMTP id 5so1064002qwg.38 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:29:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.29.21 with SMTP id o21mr563652qac.144.1296055773591; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:29:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.118.212 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:29:33 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <5893662.473.1295996118205.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prhq39> <9DE5DB0988ED6C448E606734F5030D38268592E0@bbcmbmx01.blackpool.gov.uk> <9DE5DB0988ED6C448E606734F5030D38268592E5@bbcmbmx01.blackpool.gov.uk> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 10:29:33 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] days of the week From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.51 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cb2eefe79b9049ac17f6f Content-Length: 26257 --0015175cb2eefe79b9049ac17f6f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Arbitrary is not necessarily bad. Sometimes there is no logical, rational reason for doing something a particular way. I had 2 pairs of socks this morning which were identical in every way. One pair was on the left side o= f my drawer, the other was on the right. I picked the left pair. Was it an arbitrary choice? Yes. Did I spend 80 emails going back and forth with my wife trying to come up with a more "rational" reason for choosing the left or the right pair? ummm, no. "But are you right or left handed?" say the jbodau. Screw it! I just want my damn socks. On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 10:07 AM, Alex Rozenshteyn wr= ote: > And therein lies our problem. > > > On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Michael Eaton < > michael.eaton@blackpool.gov.uk> wrote: > >> Whatever system or derivation is used, it will always be arbitrary. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com [mailto: >> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Oren >> *Sent:* 26 January 2011 14:26 >> >> *To:* lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Re: [lojban-beginners] days of the week >> >> >> >> As an avid admirer of logic in Mandarin Chinese, my initial position was >> that numbered days are just more logical, more straightforward, etc. >> >> >> >> But wow! Using colors makes way more sense if it's something that >> naturally cycles in sevens... otherwise, it's still totally arbitrary (o= kay, >> i mean "practical") to choose a seven-day cycle. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 09:06, Michael Eaton < >> michael.eaton@blackpool.gov.uk> wrote: >> >> Agreed. The counter-argument, of course, being =93starting the cycles >> from a moving point might not be acceptable to other cultures=94. >> >> >> >> Just one of those things. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com [mailto: >> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Luke Bergen >> *Sent:* 26 January 2011 14:04 >> >> >> *To:* lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Re: [lojban-beginners] days of the week >> >> >> >> Being completely honest and serious for a moment... your idea was my >> favorite gejyspa. I'm not sure why people didn't take it seriously. I >> think one of the complaints was "but it's still starting the cycles at a >> constant spot so it might not be acceptable for some cultures" to which = I >> say "well, it has to start somewhere and yes, sometimes learning a forei= gn >> language is difficult". >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 8:06 AM, Michael Turniansky < >> mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Lindar wrote= : >> >> > These are all -religious- concepts putting the sabbath as the last >> numbered >> > day of the week. Sadly, the secular world starts on Monday, and Lojban >> is a >> > secular language. We've not arrived at a single conclusion, but we hav= e >> what >> > I've seen to be four main options. >> > 1. Stick to the classic {pavdei} and just deal with the fact that it >> looks >> > retarded ('oneday' rather than 'firstday'). >> > 2. Use the more sensible {pavmomdei}. >> > 3. Use {pavdetri} as perhaps a more specific meaning. >> > 4. Use some kind of naming scheme (that is not a direct translation of >> any >> > natural language weekday name. Many of the existing proposals are >> translated >> > from the French/English where they aren't based on the name of a God, >> and >> > Japanese for those days which couldn't be taken from the former). >> > Unless we have some rational alternate option, I think we should vote = on >> one >> > of these four in a last-man-standing kind of tournament. Vote on all >> four, >> > the one least liked gets dropped, rinse, repeat. >> >> Sorry, I'm still campaigning for my color based system >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/a2d5fd068451d768 >> --gejyspa >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. >> >> >> http://www.blackpool.gov.uk/EmailDisclaimer/ >> >> This message has been scanned for inappropriate or malicious content as >> part of the Council's e-mail and Internet policies. >> >> >> >> Click here = to >> report this email as spam. >> >> >> >> http://www.blackpool.gov.uk/EmailDisclaimer/ >> This message has been scanned for inappropriate or malicious content as >> part of the Council's e-mail and Internet policies. >> >> >> ************************************************************************= ****** >> See the Blackpool You Tube video aimed at attracting French visitors by >> clicking this link http://www.visitblackpool.com/jetaime >> >> >> ************************************************************************= ****** >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Oren Robinson >> >> (315) 569-2888 >> >> 102 Morrison Ave >> >> Somerville, MA 02144 >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. >> > > > > -- > Alex R > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den. --0015175cb2eefe79b9049ac17f6f Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Arbitrary is not necessarily bad. =A0Sometimes there is no logical, rationa= l reason for doing something a particular way. =A0I had 2 pairs of socks th= is morning which were identical in every way. =A0One pair was on the left s= ide of my drawer, the other was on the right. =A0I picked the left pair. = =A0Was it an arbitrary choice? =A0Yes. =A0Did I spend 80 emails going back = and forth with my wife trying to come up with a more "rational" r= eason for choosing the left or the right pair? =A0ummm, no.

"But are you right or left handed?" say the jbodau= . =A0Screw it! =A0I just want my damn socks.

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 10:07 AM, Alex Rozenshteyn &l= t;rpglover64@gmail.com> wrote:
And therein lies our problem.


On Wed, Jan 26, 2011= at 9:45 AM, Michael Eaton <michael.eaton@blackpool.gov.uk> wrote:

Whatever system or d= erivation is used, it will always be arbitrary.

=A0


From: lojb= an-beginners@googlegroups.com [mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com= ] On Behalf Of Oren
Sent: 26 January 2011 14:26<= /span>


To: lojban-beginners@googlegroup= s.com
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginne= rs] days of the week

=A0

As an avid admirer of logic in Mandarin Chinese, my in= itial position was that numbered days are just more logical, more straightforward, etc.

=A0

But wow!=A0Using colors makes way more sense if it'= ;s something that naturally cycles in sevens... otherwise, it's still totally arbitrary (= okay, i mean "practical") to choose a seven-day cycle.

=A0

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 09:06, Michael Eaton <michael.eato= n@blackpool.gov.uk> wrote:

Agreed. The counter-= argument, of course, being =93starting the cycles from a moving point might not be acceptable to other cultures=94.

=A0

Just one of those th= ings.

=A0


From:<= font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com [mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Luke Bergen
Sent: 26 January 2011 14:04


To: lojb= an-beginners@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] days of the week

=A0

Being completely honest and serious for a moment... your idea was my favorite gejyspa. =A0I'm not sure why people didn'= t take it seriously. =A0I think one of the complaints was "but it's still starting the cycles at a constant spot so it might not be acceptable for so= me cultures" to which I say "well, it has to start somewhere and yes= , sometimes learning a foreign language is difficult".

=A0

=A0

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 8:06 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@= gmail.com> wrote:


On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Lindar <lindarthebard@yahoo.com<= /a>> wrote:

> These are all -religious- concepts putting the sabbath as the last numbered
> day of the week. Sadly, the secular world starts on Monday, and Lojban= is a
> secular language. We've not arrived at a single conclusion, but we= have what
> I've seen to be four main options.
> 1. Stick to the classic {pavdei} and just deal with the fact that it l= ooks
> retarded ('oneday' rather than 'firstday').
> 2. Use the more sensible {pavmomdei}.
> 3. Use {pavdetri} as perhaps a more specific meaning.
> 4. Use some kind of naming scheme (that is not a direct translation of= any
> natural language weekday name. Many of the existing proposals are translated
> from the French/English where they aren't based on the name of a G= od, and
> Japanese for those days which couldn't be taken from the former).<= br> > Unless we have some rational alternate option, I think we should vote = on one
> of these four in a last-man-standing kind of tournament. Vote on all f= our,
> the one least liked gets dropped, rinse, repeat.

=A0Sorry, I'm still campaigning for my color based system
http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/msg/a2d5fd068451d768
=A0 --gejyspa

=A0

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.


http://www.blackpool.gov.uk/EmailDisclaimer/

This message has been scanned for inappropriate or malicious content as part of the Council's e-mail and Internet policies.

=A0

Click here to report this email as spam.

=A0

=A0http://www.blackpool.gov.uk/EmailDisclaimer/
This message has been scanned for inappropriate or malicious content as par= t of the Council's e-mail and Internet policies.

**************************************************************************= ****
See the Blackpool You Tube video aimed at attracting French visitors by clicking this link http://www.visitblackpool.com/jetaime

**************************************************************************= ****

--

You received this message because you are subscribed t= o the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.




--

Oren Robinson

(315) 569-2888

102 Morrison Ave

Somerville, MA 02144

=A0

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.



--
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Alex R

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
--0015175cb2eefe79b9049ac17f6f--