Received: from mail-yi0-f61.google.com ([209.85.218.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PiceA-0006wY-HE; Thu, 27 Jan 2011 16:57:09 -0800 Received: by yia27 with SMTP id 27sf1457970yia.16 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2011 16:57:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=MqrMQuoGXVbK+nVCQ5AVu53ZMHhajqLdt7GddpsxSZA=; b=zJPFLF0LVAIFfdfw5ER16av1Bh8Cn4a2X9STPFvmRqrCpOwZpQgwQhVQqO73VJYNW+ jExnchPHgVP/T7fxMT04pXEA1vyqAxv7HI/7sEWSdc9dwOyeiDaSEtfKYUFEy0xTtyql Sl+6khfebmc6ZZ+AtQ/iy2HBe/nzP3sxthyU4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=wJOnCixpF+rBehHRLZEq2oHBP3apvZFaSpgg9C23Qi7nhvzvF3tbBLYXPtcOBZ+RQt GFtB/qi8AXrD9eLX4GBXgY4RPxmP459QIlZZOtz1h6LaXt/pYzilylYoomV9vSF9ch6H 30rqUO7XAyeFNYiVOlg4olI6o7h1+yRD5JhqU= Received: by 10.236.109.9 with SMTP id r9mr133521yhg.29.1296176209440; Thu, 27 Jan 2011 16:56:49 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.57.97 with SMTP id b33ls309628ibh.0.p; Thu, 27 Jan 2011 16:56:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.200.129 with SMTP id ew1mr597840ibb.0.1296176208598; Thu, 27 Jan 2011 16:56:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.200.129 with SMTP id ew1mr597839ibb.0.1296176208582; Thu, 27 Jan 2011 16:56:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iy0-f177.google.com (mail-iy0-f177.google.com [209.85.210.177]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c4si2269900ict.0.2011.01.27.16.56.47 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 27 Jan 2011 16:56:47 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.177 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.177; Received: by iyj21 with SMTP id 21so2138468iyj.8 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2011 16:56:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.178.70 with SMTP id bl6mr3130622icb.28.1296176207448; Thu, 27 Jan 2011 16:56:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.220.2 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Jan 2011 16:56:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Stela Selckiku Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:56:17 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Complicated parallelism question To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: selckiku@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.177 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=selckiku@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Length: 1533 On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 6:42 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > Listen up nintadni because I STILL make this mistake regularly. =A0se te = ve xe > are the "swapping" cmavo. =A0The rafsi of these cmavo are sel ter=A0vel x= el > respectively. =A0meanwhile tel=A0is the rafsi for stela. =A0Do not think = that if > you say {teldunda} you are saying {te dunda}, you are in fact saying {ste= la > zei dunda}. As I seem to be one of the only people this makes sense to, I'll try to justify it. By far the most common conversions are se/sel and te/ter. Giving those different sounds helps keep them distinct. It gives a little variety to the (many many) lujvo with conversions in them, so that all the lujvo aren't el-el-el-el-el. On the other hand, ve/vel and xe/xel are actually rather rare, since not all gismu have an x4 or x5 and even when they do they have more obscure meanings. So making them fit a pattern makes them easier to memorize, but doesn't make the language sound too homogeneous. I'm not sure if that's the original motivation for sel-ter-vel-xel, but that's how I've rationalized it, anyway. :) mi'e la stela selckiku mu'o --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.