Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PjO78-0002cK-V7; Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:38:15 -0800 Received: by ywh1 with SMTP id 1sf2822557ywh.16 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:38:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=UqX6qmLOtrPknNz5uFTP8z/Fs9rsrebEeMRsEO8C7so=; b=NJYnL6Ui/TQQuJMGJ761oPAPXbsY35NUl4l7trwyg8FygVqkS5JkoTC+Pi2Cp+/vZQ KwHfNqLKL//5a5kKUlmX+XC5OHeBjemX7EhbXXWQLBik0vBUzAwJ2Z6Ie1LfqWMntbv9 75Y4t96ULrR+0THvAyS7BoukYHRA2sM9tvSIw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=bLBsCTyfxNGFH2yYLn5/vVH5b5HFtjy7FoBjfzj8AVU82lLwJpl5NmQ9obWo9D0rLW KC6OAHCp1z7ei4vg6IBpfVqSqomlB17sOUj7nWEH4fyRGXfSC5zyAuNaMfyBg/Zs8Qim u7p9Ono9FPKN8iiy76U1/S3j2PkaPDJHVIJwM= Received: by 10.100.34.18 with SMTP id h18mr162557anh.26.1296358672877; Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:37:52 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.2.82 with SMTP id 18ls2206007ibi.2.p; Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:37:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.35.13 with SMTP id n13mr2251514ibd.9.1296358672008; Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:37:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.35.13 with SMTP id n13mr2251513ibd.9.1296358671968; Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:37:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iy0-f173.google.com (mail-iy0-f173.google.com [209.85.210.173]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m30si4669982ibu.6.2011.01.29.19.37.50 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:37:50 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.173 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.173; Received: by iye19 with SMTP id 19so4032314iye.18 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:37:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.199.19 with SMTP id eq19mr4781026ibb.175.1296358670798; Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:37:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.200.148 with HTTP; Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:37:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 22:37:50 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] preti: sequential naming for long-term reference From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.173 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba53a6ae1311a5049b08064a Content-Length: 10520 --90e6ba53a6ae1311a5049b08064a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 {lo re palku} = "the two pants" which means that you are referring to two separate pants, not one pants which are "the second". If I heard someone say {ca lo cabdei mi dasni le vo palku} I would think that they were saying "today I wore 4 different pairs of pants" which is clearly not what you're trying to say. On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:33 PM, Oren wrote: > Hm. Well is there anything grammatically wrong with { le pa palku }? How > would you interpret it? Is there any other use for this construct? > > { le pa moi palku } just seems a bit long. > > I guess to be explicitly naming, I could say: > > { la papalku } "(My pants named) one-pant" > { la palkupa } "(My pants named) pant-one" > > On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 21:56, Michael Turniansky wrote: > >> No,. no no. That doesn't work. "le pa pluta" ONLY means "the one >> route" "le (or lo) pamoi pluta" is the correct one to use. Don't >> forget that moi contains within it an x2 that says exactly what set it >> is the nth of (e.g."the stuff I'm writing down") and an x3 that says >> how you are ordering it (e.g. "chronologically by the time/date I'm >> writing them down) You can leave them out of course, if context makes >> it obvious, which in this case it certainly does. >> --gejsypa >> >> _ >> >> On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 9:36 PM, Oren wrote: >> > da'i let's suppose I was writing a diary in lojban, and kept track of >> some >> > very mundane things, like what route I took to the store, or what pants >> I >> > was wearing. Some of these may have a chronological sequence that I >> might >> > refer to and internally keep track of my routes/pants. In english, I >> might >> > say I took "the first route" to the store, while wearing my "third" pair >> of >> > pants. >> > da'isa'u let's say I don't want to use { pa mai } for "first" because >> it >> > may not actually be first chronologically, but only the first that i >> mention >> > in my diary. Would it make sense to just say >> > { le pa pluta } "That first route; Route 1" >> > { le re pluta } "That second/other route; Route 2" >> > { le pa palku } "Those first pants; Pants 1" >> > { le re palku } "Those second/other pants; Pants 2" >> > ... which la/le/lo/li should I use for this? Is there a better way? >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups >> > "Lojban Beginners" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> >> > > > -- > Oren Robinson > (315) 569-2888 > 102 Morrison Ave > Somerville, MA 02144 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --90e6ba53a6ae1311a5049b08064a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable {lo re palku} =3D "the two pants" which means that you are referr= ing to two=A0separate=A0pants, not one pants which are "the second&quo= t;. =A0If I heard someone say {ca lo cabdei mi dasni le vo palku} I would t= hink that they were saying "today I wore 4 different pairs of pants&qu= ot; which is clearly not what you're trying to say.

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:33 PM, Oren <get.oren@gmail.com> wrote:
Hm. Well is there anything grammatically wrong with =A0{ l= e pa palku }? How would you interpret it? Is there any other use for this c= onstruct?

=A0{ le pa moi palku } just seems a bit long.<= div>

I guess to be explicitly naming, I could say:

{ la papalku } "(My pants named) one-pant"
{ l= a palkupa } "(My pants named) pant-one"

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 21:56, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.c= om> wrote:
=A0No,. no no. =A0That doesn't work. =A0"le pa pluta" ONLY m= eans "the one
route" =A0"le (or lo) =A0pamoi pluta" is the correct one to = use. =A0Don't
forget that moi contains within it an x2 that says exactly what set it
is the nth of (e.g."the stuff I'm writing down") and an x3 th= at says
how you are ordering it (e.g. "chronologically by the time/date I'= m
writing them down) =A0You can leave them out of course, if context makes it obvious, which in this case it certainly does.
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 --gejsypa

_

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 9:36 PM, Oren <get.oren@gmail.com> wrote:
> da'i let's suppose I was writing a = diary in lojban, and kept track of some
> very mundane things, like what route I took to the store, or what pant= s I
> was wearing. Some of these may have a chronological sequence that I mi= ght
> refer to and internally keep track of my routes/pants. In english, I m= ight
> say I took "the first route" to the store, while wearing my = "third" pair of
> pants.
> da'isa'u let's say I don't want to use =A0{ pa mai } f= or "first" because it
> may not actually be first chronologically, but only the first that i m= ention
> in my diary. Would it make sense to just say
> { le pa pluta }=A0"That first route; Route 1"
> { le re pluta }=A0"That second/other route; Route 2"
> { le pa palku }=A0"Those first pants; Pants 1"
> { le re palku }=A0"Those second/other pants; Pants 2"
> ... which la/le/lo/li should I use for this? Is there a better way? >
> --
> You received this message because you are subscri= bed to the Google Groups
> "Lojban Beginners" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com= .
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den= .
>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.




--
Oren Robinson
(315) 569-2888
102 Morrison A= ve
Somerville, MA 02144

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.

--
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