On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at = 3:50 PM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
jbovlaste lists {cnixai} as having gloss

hurt in the sense of &q=
uot;wound emotions"

as well as

offend =
in the sense of "wound emotions"

which makes me think th= at it doesn't quite mean "hurt one's feelings" in the sen= se that torturing {da} would probably {cnixai da}, and that PTSD is {xe cni= xai}

Is {da'i} the standard for expressing hypotheticals?=A0 I could swe= ar that I've heard {va'o} used.

=A0=A0 No,= it's the "da'i" that expresses the hypotheticals.=A0 The= "va'o" means "under the circumstances of".=A0 But = by itself, it doesn't mean it's necessarily counterfactual. =A0 For= example.=A0 "mi klama lo briju fu lo karce va'o lo nu carvi lo sn= ime" Means "I drive(drove) to the office in the snow"=A0 But= "=A0 mi klama lo briju fu lo karce va'o lo nu da'i carvi lo s= nime" means "I will drive to the office if it snows".

=A0

= Also, if you already have {mu'i da'i}, couldn't you just drop t= he {nelci}? e.g. "with motivation you don't hurt her ..."

=A0
=A0 I didn't have "nelci", I had &qu= ot;djica", but yes, you could drop it, but just because my motivation = is not hurting her, it doesn't mean that I desire to not hurt her, so I= was more explicit.

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0

I feel like that keeps the volitional component missing from "To avoid= from hurting her ..."

=

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0 --gejyspa
=A0

On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 a= t 3:27 PM, Oren <get.oren@gmail.com> wrote:

= Again, my motivation is fear of malglico, and preference to straightforward= ness.

"Hurt my feelings" is something that, for example,= doesn't really translate into Mandarin Chinese directly. "Hurt my= heart," likewise, is a Mandarin Chinese expression that doesn't t= ranslate into very colloquial English. .i mi jinvi lo nu both of these expr= essions are roughly captured by the gloss "to make unhappy." This= seems much more direct and less=A0susceptible=A0to cultural mistranslation= or misinterpretation.

Am I trading liberty for security? maybe.

On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 a= t 14:51, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrot= e:

= =A0 Why?=A0 You don't feel that someone can be impaired in their abilit= y to feel emotion? ;-)

On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 1:= 21 PM, Oren <get.oren@gmail.com> wrote:

= Maybe I'm just hypercorrecting phantom malglico, but I don't think = "xrani ko'a lo ka cinmo" is necessary, when we have

{ ko'a gasnu lo nu ko'e badri }

I mean, wounding someone's emotions is certainly poetic,= but IMO not the most straightforward way to go about making someone unhapp= y in lojban.

=A0
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 12:08, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.co= m> wrote:

= mu'i da'i lo nu do na djica lo nu xrani ko'a lo ka cinmo=A0=A0 = cu bilga fa do lo nu toltce ticysku

=A0 da'i still makes hypotheticdals.. what's hypothetical here?= =A0 Your motive.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa

On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:55 AM, .ar= pis. <rpglover64+jbotat@gmail.com> wrote:
= If you don't want to hurt her feelings you're going to have to bend= the truth a little.

Besides the difficult of translating "= bend the truth" (I'm probably going to use {krori'a pe'a})= , I have no idea how to set up the conditional.=A0 It's not a straight-= up logical connective, and {va'o} doesn't quite seem to cut it for = me.

.e'o sidju

--
mu'o mi'e .arpis.

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