Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PnK2f-0007e0-Iu; Wed, 09 Feb 2011 16:05:54 -0800 Received: by gyb11 with SMTP id 11sf490438gyb.16 for ; Wed, 09 Feb 2011 16:05:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=v2GLZr4DAmHZCiXYjxhEVp+y570KeQxmguLH13Zj5Ew=; b=a4TWYLK1dsIZWKi7sRhc/a6SUhKLMzIlyJNmK5BO3z8xX3BqEZffuccs9YskDN53HJ 5Cdh6u4XHq++l9xSn97RzUAYxyqaSptmFDNmbYoe9BPg6IWmVQsUw+zEWMxeTWSIRD7/ Xvr4uCvfq4Hl0/S3kJI8o6kpuh6GkA7AHQKeU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=q2xyDVrDV/vczH4qhm8Jn5BZPSUV/+oZ0B6YW7mjfgN4H4+iztpzIQnPwvrKrOe4Pp vB1XXQhY/0YL9t47RuU5oPCHC/08r/hcR0rLcym387yrQ/0hLFaNZSzx8MrRQ4rGdJrv y6vINHvuia7AeRn1/QDcpTk5s4K9LhIIClPV0= Received: by 10.90.80.14 with SMTP id d14mr199226agb.57.1297296331977; Wed, 09 Feb 2011 16:05:31 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.57.97 with SMTP id b33ls1503400ibh.0.p; Wed, 09 Feb 2011 16:05:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.199.73 with SMTP id er9mr3374175ibb.17.1297296331082; Wed, 09 Feb 2011 16:05:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.199.73 with SMTP id er9mr3374174ibb.17.1297296331039; Wed, 09 Feb 2011 16:05:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iw0-f176.google.com (mail-iw0-f176.google.com [209.85.214.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d9si171989ibq.7.2011.02.09.16.05.30 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 09 Feb 2011 16:05:30 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.176 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.176; Received: by mail-iw0-f176.google.com with SMTP id 2so758889iwn.35 for ; Wed, 09 Feb 2011 16:05:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.16.200 with SMTP id p8mr4738864iba.181.1297296329852; Wed, 09 Feb 2011 16:05:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.199.19 with HTTP; Wed, 9 Feb 2011 16:05:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.199.19 with HTTP; Wed, 9 Feb 2011 16:05:29 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 19:05:29 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Finally? From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=002215046c7be8c60a049be25699 Content-Length: 15837 --002215046c7be8c60a049be25699 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm beginning to think that there are fundamentally two separate claims. 1) mi co'a se jibri 2) mi puze'u sisku lo za'i mi se jibri Either these two need to be seperate bridi or you need to restate one of them in terms of the other like gejyspa did. mi puze'umo'u sisku lo jibri On Feb 9, 2011 5:52 PM, "Jonathan Jones" wrote: > On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 3:01 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: >> >>> No, that's why I chose the malgli form of {cpacu} to show initiation of >>> the job. >>> >>> I'd be amazed if there weren't some quick easy way to express "finally" >>> given the absurd number of tenses, contours, intervals, etc... that we have >>> at our disposal. >>> >>> .... >>> >>> and yet, I can't think of what it would be... It's something like, {mi se >>> jibri}, but I {co'a se jibri} and {pu ze'u na se jibri}. >>> >>> Is it possible to say something like "mi pu citka .iku'i mi ca na citka" >>> without having to break it out into a new bridi? Would "mi pu canai citka" >>> do what I want it to here? If so, you could say {mi co'a puze'unai se >>> jibri} "I [start] & [past-long-time do not] have job". Although I get the >>> feeling like I've done something very wrong here. >>> >>> >> Yes. Say "mi mo'u citka" :-) And no, you can't -nai ZEhA. Yes, you >> can certainly say "mi mo'u na se jibri" or "mi ba'o na se jibri", but I went >> with a UI for "finally" because to me, in that sentence, it's really nothing >> more than an intensifier, something that UI do well. >> --gejyspa >> > > I was specifically meaning "finally" as in the "after a long time, typically > involving difficulty or delay" use, not in the exasperated or aggravating > expressive use. > > On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Michael Turniansky > wrote: >>> >>>> No, that's more "I am still holding onto the job" (And "cpacu lo >>>> jibri" is malglico, anyhow. Use seljibri). >>>> Personally, I'd use a UI like u'a or uo. The big problem is that the >>>> English "finally" in that sentence really means "ba lo nu zu co'e", which is >>>> just too much of a mouthful. Recasting as "lo pu'u mi sisku tu'a lo jibri >>>> cu mulno" might be better. >>>> --gejyspa >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'd probably use {za'o}. {mi za'o cpacu lo jibri} >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> How to translate finally, as in "I finally got the job!"? >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>>>> >>>>>> .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi >>>>>> patfu do zo'o >>>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com >>>>>> . >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com . >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do > zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --002215046c7be8c60a049be25699 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I'm beginning to think that there are fundamentally two separate cla= ims.=A0

1) mi co'a se jibri
2) mi puze'u sisku lo za'i mi se jibri

Either these two need to be seperate bridi or you need to restate one of= them in terms of the other like gejyspa did.
mi puze'umo'u sisku lo jibri

On Feb 9, 2011 5:52 PM, "Jonathan Jones&quo= t; <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote= :
> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Michael Turn= iansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 3:01 PM, L= uke Bergen <
lukeabergen@gmail.c= om> wrote:
>>
>>> No, that's why I chose th= e malgli form of {cpacu} to show initiation of
>>> the job.
>>>
>>> I'd be amazed if = there weren't some quick easy way to express "finally"
>= ;>> given the absurd number of tenses, contours, intervals, etc... th= at we have
>>> at our disposal.
>>>
>>> ....
>&= gt;>
>>> and yet, I can't think of what it would be... I= t's something like, {mi se
>>> jibri}, but I {co'a se j= ibri} and {pu ze'u na se jibri}.
>>>
>>> Is it possible to say something like "mi = pu citka .iku'i mi ca na citka"
>>> without having to = break it out into a new bridi? Would "mi pu canai citka"
>>> do what I want it to here? If so, you could say {mi co'a = puze'unai se
>>> jibri} "I [start] & [past-long-ti= me do not] have job". Although I get the
>>> feeling like= I've done something very wrong here.
>>>
>>>
>> Yes. Say "mi mo'u citk= a" :-) And no, you can't -nai ZEhA. Yes, you
>> can ce= rtainly say "mi mo'u na se jibri" or "mi ba'o na se = jibri", but I went
>> with a UI for "finally" because to me, in that sentence,= it's really nothing
>> more than an intensifier, something th= at UI do well.
>> --gejyspa
>>
>
> = I was specifically meaning "finally" as in the "after a long= time, typically
> involving difficulty or delay" use, not in the exasperated or agg= ravating
> expressive use.
>
> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at = 2:10 PM, Michael Turniansky
> <mturniansky@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> No, that's more "I am still ho= lding onto the job" (And "cpacu lo
>>>> jibri"= ; is malglico, anyhow. Use seljibri).
>>>> Personally, I&= #39;d use a UI like u'a or uo. The big problem is that the
>>>> English "finally" in that sentence really means = "ba lo nu zu co'e", which is
>>>> just too muc= h of a mouthful. Recasting as "lo pu'u mi sisku tu'a lo jibri=
>>>> cu mulno" might be better.
>>>> = --gejyspa
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'd probably use {za'o}. = {mi za'o cpacu lo jibri}
>>>>>
>>>>>= ;
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Jonathan Jones &l= t;eyeonus@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> How to translate finally, = as in "I finally got the job!"?
>>>>>>
&g= t;>>>>> --
>>>>>> mu'o mi'e .ai= onys.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> .i.a'o.e'e ko = cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi
>>>>&g= t;> patfu do zo'o
>>>>>> (Come to the Dot Side!= Luke, I am your father. :D )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>= >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google=
>>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
>>>>>> .
>>>>>> To unsubscribe= from this group, send email to
>>>>>>
lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>= >>>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>>&= gt;>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --=
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscrib= ed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners"= ; group.
>>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.<= br>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>>= >>> For more options, visit this group at
>>>>> = http://= groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>&g= t;>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Goog= le Groups
>>>> "Lojban Beginners" group.
>&g= t;>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>&= gt;> = lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>>>> For = more options, visit this group at
>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.
&= gt;>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> You rece= ived this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "Lojban Beginners" group.
>>> To post to= this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe = from this group, send email to
>>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>>> For= more options, visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/= lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.
>>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this mess= age because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Lojba= n Beginners" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to <= a href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com">lojban-beginners@google= groups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> lojban-beginner= s+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit thi= s group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.
>><= br>>
>
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >
> .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu = .i doi.luk. mi patfu do
> zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luk= e, I am your father. :D )
>
> --
> You received this me= ssage because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginner= s" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
> To unsub= scribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com= .
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-b= eginners?hl=3Den.
>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
--002215046c7be8c60a049be25699--