On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Michael Tur= niansky <mtur= niansky@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 9:39 AM, .alyn.post.
<alyn.post@lodockikuma= zvati.org> wrote:

> Will you help clarify some confusion I'm h= aving, then?:
>
> lo mamta =A0 =A0=3D> mother

(a/some mothers)

> lo se mamta =3D> child =A0(not quite the right gl= oss, I don't think that
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 matters in this case)

(child of a mother)
> mamta =A0 =A0 =A0 =3D> mothering/motherness?
>

=A0 =A0No. =A0"mamta" is not "mothering/motherness" Th= at would be "ka
mamta". =A0"mamta" is a relationship. =A0Something m1 is the= mother of
something else, m2.

> lo ponse =A0 =A0=3D> owner
an owner/some owners
> lo se ponse =3D> possesion
Yes, if you mean that as a noun -- a possession/some possessions.
> ponse =A0 =A0 =A0 =3D> possessing/ownership?

=A0No. =A0That would be nu ponse, or ka ponse, or za'i ponse, dependin= g
on how you mean it. =A0 Again, it's a relationship. =A0"p1 is the<= br> possessor of p2 under law p3"

>
> I don't quite get how one gets grandmother out of mamymamta, thoug= h
> I've confused the special significance that an x1 place has before= .
>
> It seems in this case though that mamymamta either takes one meaning > for the first mam (mothering) and another meaning for the second
> (mother), or that my gloss for mamta is wrong and it doesn't expre= ss
> motherness at all, but an actual mother.
>
> What am not understanding?
>

=A0Remember that a tanru, "x1 mamta mamta x2", means that = x1 is a
mother type of mother of x2. =A0The exact relationship between the
seltau and the tertau is up to the user. =A0Just like a "barda gerku&q= uot; is
a "big type of dog" (presumably a big dog, "ko'a cu bard= a je gerku",
but maybe, for example, a type of dog that a big person would own
("ko'a me lo gerku da'i po lo barda")) or a "gerku p= onse" is a "dog
type of owner", presumably a dog owner ("ko'a cu ponse lo ger= ku") but
possibly describing my dog up above ("ko'a cu gerku je ponse"= ), or
possibly some other type of relationship ("ko'a ponse fi tu'a = lo
gerku", he possess things the way a dog thinks about possession (i.e.<= br> it's here, it's mine). =A0So a mamta mamta is most probably "k= o'a cu
mamta lo mamta", but it could also be many other things)). =A0But once=
you lujvoize it, it has only one meaning, the one the author defines,
which in this case is exactly that meaning. =A0"x1 is the mother of x2= ,
who is the mother x3"

=A0Have I helped clear up anything?

> -Alan
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 03, 2011 at 09:26:02AM -0500, Luke Bergen wrote:
>> =A0 =A0that makes the most sense to me.. although my first thought= when I saw
>> =A0 =A0{ponse ponse} was something like {ba'e ponse}... not th= at I know what the
>> =A0 =A0difference between {ponse} and {ba'e ponse} is but... t= hat was my first
>> =A0 =A0thought. (though as I said, I do like gejyspa's interpr= etation better).
>>
>> =A0 =A0On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 8:25 AM, Michael Turniansky
>> =A0 =A0<[1]mturniansky= @gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0An owner of an owner, I suppose...
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0lo mi gerku cu ponse lo bolci .iseni'ibo mi ponse p= onse
>> =A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa
>> =A0 =A0 =A0On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Pierre Abbat <[2]phma@phma.optus.nu>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0wrote:
>> =A0 =A0 =A0> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 14:44:22 .alyn.post.= wrote:
>> =A0 =A0 =A0>> .i fo ma fu lo nu valsi rapli cu tanru .i lu p= onse ponse li'u mupli
>> =A0 =A0 =A0>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0>> What does word doubling mean in a tanru? For e= xample: {ponse
>> =A0 =A0 =A0>> ponse}
>> =A0 =A0 =A0>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0> "klakyklaku klakyklaku klaku" is used in= The Restaurant of Many Orders
>> =A0 =A0 =A0> for "cried and cried and cried and cried and = cried". "mamymamta"
>> =A0 =A0 =A0(lujvo jenai
>> =A0 =A0 =A0> tanru) means "maternal grandmother", and= similarly "pafpatfu". I'm not
>> =A0 =A0 =A0sure
>> =A0 =A0 =A0> what "ponse ponse" would mean.
>> =A0 =A0 =A0>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0> Pierre
>> =A0 =A0 =A0> --
>> =A0 =A0 =A0> I believe in Yellow when I'm in Sweden and in = Black when I'm in Wales.
>> =A0 =A0 =A0>
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> --
> .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi
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