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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 10:17:36 -0500
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] lo nu valsi rapli cu xe tanru fo ma
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  No, no.  Your definition is better.  Sorry.  Of course it makes
sense that the x2 would be the grandchild, and the x3 relegated to a
subbridi.
      --gejyspa


On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> whoops, I guess my guess at the definition of it was wrong then. =A0I ass=
ume
> that a gloss like "grandmother" would leave the grandchild as the x2. =A0=
Seems
> like a more important place. =A0But I guess that's arbitrary. =A0There is=
 no
> definition of mamymamta in jbovlaste. =A0Maybe when I get home from work =
I'll
> add it (unless someone beats me to it... or I forget).
>
> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.co=
m>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 9:39 AM, .alyn.post.
>> <alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
>> > Will you help clarify some confusion I'm having, then?:
>> >
>> > lo mamta =A0 =A0=3D> mother
>> (a/some mothers)
>> > lo se mamta =3D> child =A0(not quite the right gloss, I don't think th=
at
>> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 matters in this case)
>> (child of a mother)
>> > mamta =A0 =A0 =A0 =3D> mothering/motherness?
>> >
>>
>> =A0 =A0No. =A0"mamta" is not "mothering/motherness" That would be "ka
>> mamta". =A0"mamta" is a relationship. =A0Something m1 is the mother of
>> something else, m2.
>>
>> > lo ponse =A0 =A0=3D> owner
>> an owner/some owners
>> > lo se ponse =3D> possesion
>> Yes, if you mean that as a noun -- a possession/some possessions.
>> > ponse =A0 =A0 =A0 =3D> possessing/ownership?
>>
>> =A0No. =A0That would be nu ponse, or ka ponse, or za'i ponse, depending
>> on how you mean it. =A0 Again, it's a relationship. =A0"p1 is the
>> possessor of p2 under law p3"
>>
>> >
>> > I don't quite get how one gets grandmother out of mamymamta, though
>> > I've confused the special significance that an x1 place has before.
>> >
>> > It seems in this case though that mamymamta either takes one meaning
>> > for the first mam (mothering) and another meaning for the second
>> > (mother), or that my gloss for mamta is wrong and it doesn't express
>> > motherness at all, but an actual mother.
>> >
>> > What am not understanding?
>> >
>>
>> =A0Remember that a tanru, "x1 mamta mamta x2", means that x1 is a
>> mother type of mother of x2. =A0The exact relationship between the
>> seltau and the tertau is up to the user. =A0Just like a "barda gerku" is
>> a "big type of dog" (presumably a big dog, "ko'a cu barda je gerku",
>> but maybe, for example, a type of dog that a big person would own
>> ("ko'a me lo gerku da'i po lo barda")) or a "gerku ponse" is a "dog
>> type of owner", presumably a dog owner ("ko'a cu ponse lo gerku") but
>> possibly describing my dog up above ("ko'a cu gerku je ponse"), or
>> possibly some other type of relationship ("ko'a ponse fi tu'a lo
>> gerku", he possess things the way a dog thinks about possession (i.e.
>> it's here, it's mine). =A0So a mamta mamta is most probably "ko'a cu
>> mamta lo mamta", but it could also be many other things)). =A0But once
>> you lujvoize it, it has only one meaning, the one the author defines,
>> which in this case is exactly that meaning. =A0"x1 is the mother of x2,
>> who is the mother x3"
>>
>> =A0Have I helped clear up anything?
>>
>> > -Alan
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Feb 03, 2011 at 09:26:02AM -0500, Luke Bergen wrote:
>> >> =A0 =A0that makes the most sense to me.. although my first thought wh=
en I
>> >> saw
>> >> =A0 =A0{ponse ponse} was something like {ba'e ponse}... not that I kn=
ow
>> >> what the
>> >> =A0 =A0difference between {ponse} and {ba'e ponse} is but... that was=
 my
>> >> first
>> >> =A0 =A0thought. (though as I said, I do like gejyspa's interpretation
>> >> better).
>> >>
>> >> =A0 =A0On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 8:25 AM, Michael Turniansky
>> >> =A0 =A0<[1]mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0An owner of an owner, I suppose...
>> >>
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0lo mi gerku cu ponse lo bolci .iseni'ibo mi ponse ponse
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Pierre Abbat
>> >> <[2]phma@phma.optus.nu>
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0wrote:
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 14:44:22 .alyn.post. wrote=
:
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0>> .i fo ma fu lo nu valsi rapli cu tanru .i lu ponse pons=
e li'u
>> >> mupli
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0>>
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0>> What does word doubling mean in a tanru? For example: {=
ponse
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0>> ponse}
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0>
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0> "klakyklaku klakyklaku klaku" is used in The Restaurant =
of Many
>> >> Orders
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0> for "cried and cried and cried and cried and cried". "ma=
mymamta"
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0(lujvo jenai
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0> tanru) means "maternal grandmother", and similarly "pafp=
atfu".
>> >> I'm not
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0sure
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0> what "ponse ponse" would mean.
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0>
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0> Pierre
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0> --
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0> I believe in Yellow when I'm in Sweden and in Black when=
 I'm in
>> >> Wales.
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0>
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0> --
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0> You received this message because you are subscribed to =
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>> >> Google
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0> To post to this group, send email to
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0[3]lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
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>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0>
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0>
>> >>
>> >> =A0 =A0 =A0--
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>> >>
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>> >> References
>> >>
>> >> =A0 =A0Visible links
>> >> =A0 =A01. mailto:mturniansky@gmail.com
>> >> =A0 =A02. mailto:phma@phma.optus.nu
>> >> =A0 =A03. mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
>> >> =A0 =A04. mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> >> =A0 =A05. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den
>> >> =A0 =A06. mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
>> >> =A0 =A07. mailto:lojban-beginners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> >> =A0 =A08. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den
>> >
>> > --
>> > .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi
>> >
>> > --
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>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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>> >
>> >
>>
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>
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