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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 11:48:29 -0500
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] elidable terminator discussion in CLL?
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  I don't believer either actually exists.  The first reference to a
terminator being elidable is Chapter 5.5 (and here ke'e isn't associated
with the word "terminator").  The first use of the word terminator is in 5.7
with be'o.  Nor is is explicitly stated anywhere (that I've seen) the entire
general concept that many grammatical in lojban are introduced with a cmavo,
and closed with a terminator that may be elided under certain circumstance
(Such as there being a terminator from an enclosing group, which
implicitly terminates all internal groups that have not been terminated). It
would probably be a good idea to include sucha conept in the CLL in English,
but I don't think it exists.  Probably Computer Science people such as me
never noticed this lack, because it seems intuitively obvious to our
mindset, but yeah, it should definitely be stated somwhere.  (the end of
Chapter 19 is as close as it comes, but yeah, basically, just a list, and
obviously, the general concepts should probably be introduced earlier)

       --gejyspa



On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 10:26 AM, .alyn.post. <alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org
> wrote:

> The CLL frequently uses the phrase "elidable terminator."  I'm
> looking for a place in the book where this phrase is defined,
> and preferably also a formal statement that elidable terminators
> bind to their closest marker:
>
>  to to toi => (to (to toi))
>  lu lu li'u => (lu (lu li'u))
>
> Is true, whereas:
>
>  to to toi => (to (to) toi)
>  lu lu li'u => (lu (lu) li'u)
>
> Is incorrect.
>
> Can someone point me to the chapter where this concept is discussed?
> It is indirectly discussed all over the place, for specific
> terminators, but I can't seem to find the principle described
> anywhere.
>
> I'm aware of the list of elidable terminators:
>
>  http://dag.github.com/cll/19/17/
>
> But that page does not discuss usage or define them.
>
> -Alan
> --
> .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Lojban Beginners" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
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>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>=A0 I don&#39;t believer either actually exists.=A0 T=
he first reference to a terminator being elidable is Chapter 5.5 (and here =
ke&#39;e=A0isn&#39;t associated with the word &quot;terminator&quot;).=A0 T=
he first use of the word terminator is in 5.7 with be&#39;o.=A0 Nor is is e=
xplicitly stated anywhere (that I&#39;ve seen) the entire general concept t=
hat many grammatical in lojban are introduced with a cmavo, and closed with=
 a terminator that may be elided under certain circumstance (Such as there =
being a terminator from an enclosing group, which implicitly=A0terminates a=
ll internal groups that have not been terminated).=A0It would probably be a=
 good idea to include sucha conept in the CLL in English, but I don&#39;t t=
hink it exists.=A0 Probably Computer Science people such as me never notice=
d this lack, because it seems intuitively obvious to our mindset, but yeah,=
 it should definitely be stated somwhere.=A0 (the end of Chapter 19 is as c=
lose as it comes, but yeah, basically, just a list, and obviously, the gene=
ral concepts should probably be introduced earlier)</div>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa</div>
<div><br><br>=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 10:26 AM, .alyn.post. <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org">alyn.p=
ost@lodockikumazvati.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">The CLL frequently uses the phra=
se &quot;elidable terminator.&quot; =A0I&#39;m<br>looking for a place in th=
e book where this phrase is defined,<br>
and preferably also a formal statement that elidable terminators<br>bind to=
 their closest marker:<br><br>=A0to to toi =3D&gt; (to (to toi))<br>=A0lu l=
u li&#39;u =3D&gt; (lu (lu li&#39;u))<br><br>Is true, whereas:<br><br>=A0to=
 to toi =3D&gt; (to (to) toi)<br>
=A0lu lu li&#39;u =3D&gt; (lu (lu) li&#39;u)<br><br>Is incorrect.<br><br>Ca=
n someone point me to the chapter where this concept is discussed?<br>It is=
 indirectly discussed all over the place, for specific<br>terminators, but =
I can&#39;t seem to find the principle described<br>
anywhere.<br><br>I&#39;m aware of the list of elidable terminators:<br><br>=
=A0<a href=3D"http://dag.github.com/cll/19/17/" target=3D"_blank">http://da=
g.github.com/cll/19/17/</a><br><br>But that page does not discuss usage or =
define them.<br>
<br>-Alan<br>--<br>.i ko djuno fi le do sevzi<br><font color=3D"#888888"><b=
r>--<br>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google =
Groups &quot;Lojban Beginners&quot; group.<br>To post to this group, send e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com">lojban-beginne=
rs@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban-begi=
nners%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com">lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegr=
oups.com</a>.<br>For more options, visit this group at <a href=3D"http://gr=
oups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den" target=3D"_blank">http://gr=
oups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
<br></font></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

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