Received: from mail-vx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.220.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PlSIM-0000MR-9q; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 12:30:22 -0800 Received: by vxc34 with SMTP id 34sf585904vxc.16 for ; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 12:30:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis :x-cloudmark-score:x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=UT7xFxr0zpLH4NatZ4iIcZ7kVIOB99QMofnyE2eSMg8=; b=llM8cUW53h9zxkXmz7HlAZJhn27To4XMaPh0NEKl/bArBe0Fd4YIi2MTVM1jy5pB3s jXXucuD/uC55o+PxG+VufoAORGWhj4gdZBRU4fzIG/4ZaEspqimmc9MWuRmID0zkADZq CuG3hpQOqE1+nTviRFNa/sZepPa2k6vRtSO00= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authority-analysis:x-cloudmark-score :x-originating-ip:from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:mime-version:message-id:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; b=yZJbDx66uPRRcynHXpmIGnsPud6vOOkyVuccPv877JSw+eClBqZGzkn9LucoXad/PL WB8jN9vZ10jLMA2/HDZWm25ebaT9+dezIqWbzXlgfKpOzvvnYU7oGxlEWDdZPhUwqwcf /d7er7/VNEGaS6xwhR+x1U/9R4l3SlaWscXhs= Received: by 10.220.179.129 with SMTP id bq1mr416957vcb.20.1296851400709; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 12:30:00 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.109.143 with SMTP id j15ls503670vcp.1.p; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 12:29:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.195.203 with SMTP id ed11mr482018vcb.6.1296851398848; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 12:29:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.195.203 with SMTP id ed11mr482017vcb.6.1296851398800; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 12:29:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.122]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id c37si154717vcs.6.2011.02.04.12.29.56; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 12:29:56 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.122 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) client-ip=75.180.132.122; X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=pepdxKapwHuwCZNFD5uob2wvham6E+RljB0uXw08FdQ= c=1 sm=0 a=0fttzT41vDkA:10 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=Q9fys5e9bTEA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:17 a=T-_Mi_OxIyDzVhLl3koA:9 a=3EHnRQEjMW-auGNNOswA:7 a=5_cVkNJszGq6K0ZDYMMVVykNsUkA:4 a=PUjeQqilurYA:10 a=9o99xeNKNPYSmM5t9x5+TQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.176.118.168 Received: from [75.176.118.168] ([75.176.118.168:44544] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge03.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 17/96-19545-4C16C4D4; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 20:29:56 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1234178F2 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:29:55 -0500 (EST) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] elidable terminator discussion in CLL? Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 15:29:52 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: <4235790.53.1296846798527.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prcm18> In-Reply-To: <4235790.53.1296846798527.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prcm18> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <201102041529.53961.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Original-Sender: phma@phma.optus.nu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 75.180.132.122 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@phma.optus.nu) smtp.mail=phma@phma.optus.nu Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Length: 2677 On Friday 04 February 2011 14:13:18 Lindar wrote: > I don't have an exhaustive list of the English words, so I can't really > say, but I'll rattle off a few. > > gismu - ?? (it's a word-form) > cmavo - ?? function word > selma'o - ?? > bridi - ?? clause > selbri - predicate > terbri - argument > cnima'o - 'attitudinal' ?? - discursive > fa'orma'o - 'terminator' > gadri - article? > sumtcita - modal? The proper English translation of "sumtcita" is "adposition", but it is customary in English to call them "prepositions" or "postpositions", whichever occur in the language. Since all Lojban adpositions are prepositions, we should call them that. "Modal" is Lojbanic jargon for "preposition derived from a predicate", as distinct from tense markers used as prepositions. In linguistic terminology it refers to words like "ka'e". > temtcita - specifically time-related (nonce guess) I call them "tense markers". Linguists talk of TAM (tense, aspect, mood). Lojban has spatial tenses as well. I don't know whether they should be considered as a fourth category or lumped with the time tenses. Even mood markers can be used as prepositions. What does "mi zbasu ka'e le curnu" mean? > tanru - ?? compound phrase? > lujvo - ?? compound word, but some lujvo formed with cmavo aren't compounds in the linguistic sense, but derivations. > rafsi - ?? bound form > selrafsi - ?? > zi'evla - ?? > fu'ivla - 'borrow-word' > malgli - =D Anglicism > ra'abri - 'clause' (like {noi}) What's that? If you mean "subordinate clause", I'd say "vipybri", but that's what I'd call "nu broda". "noi broda" is a skibri. > terjonma'o - 'connective' ({.e} or {gi'e}) conjunction Also we should have Lojban words for natlang grammatical terms. As some features of natlangs are lacking in Lojban, some of these will be fu'ivla. cmene - proper noun cmevla - intrinsic proper noun ("John", as distinct from "Bear") fauvla - verb daivla - noun skivla - adjective adverbio - adverb nalcme daivla - common noun infinitivo - infinitive participio - participle tersu'i - case vlacne - inflect (said of a word) faurvlacne - conjugate dairvlacne ja skivlacne - decline tairmupli - form of a word sumbasti, sumyma'o - pronoun Pierre -- li ze te'a ci vu'u ci bi'e te'a mu du li ci su'i ze te'a mu bi'e vu'u ci -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.