Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Pq93k-0007Mc-Uy; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 10:58:40 -0800 Received: by gyb11 with SMTP id 11sf2177321gyb.16 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 10:58:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=8XMyHimnQIFzaF9t1oGRvOSWHTufuK+e4huOSqJ9VLI=; b=E7SI0PAovtUXuJ0cj9B5Ykvjo1mF0Sale6HyIifE6sDkXDttPE3b565e25w9aLme2G RDMdKq5rvG04JAIqZvKICyRQ1CgRhgAiyORoPk8p4IMao3C8jLh0F+fM1mYMkzF6JEJB aTUetPaNNMO1xNgmFV//GIY62cxnfu2+MuQbE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=qcsO9gRwRii+bl2hmSW2Mq95L3ZcQhCuNFFoShYme23Gl7X0wB0oPZaQGGISBrYoCi i2OMB22VVhl75Wvr5jJN5bOGJ8W4MlV7Lhe7I7kP4WEc85USfM0XsAhch4zHWcusrSOX mflaEPDd06ZHg2OrTrAMwdXfy3MMzZSvmLZN8= Received: by 10.150.229.13 with SMTP id b13mr323614ybh.8.1297969099364; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 10:58:19 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.2.82 with SMTP id 18ls2016692ibi.2.p; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 10:58:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.39.205 with SMTP id h13mr724237ibe.4.1297969098376; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 10:58:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.39.205 with SMTP id h13mr724236ibe.4.1297969098336; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 10:58:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iy0-f176.google.com (mail-iy0-f176.google.com [209.85.210.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d9si248803ibq.7.2011.02.17.10.58.18 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 17 Feb 2011 10:58:18 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.176 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.176; Received: by iyb26 with SMTP id 26so2936185iyb.21 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 10:58:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.174.70 with SMTP id u6mr3420329icz.214.1297969098152; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 10:58:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.199.19 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Feb 2011 10:57:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Luke Bergen Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 13:57:58 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Question about {roda} To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba613c96065c97049c7efb86 Content-Length: 5588 --90e6ba613c96065c97049c7efb86 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 As I understand it, yes {roda prenu} is saying that everything is a person (clearly wrong). From what I've seen, it seems like {roda} is more useful when used with a prenix or {poi}, or when used with a negative selbri like {mi na djuno roda}. And I believe the answer to your second question is yes. It's ok to use {ko'a} even if you haven't assigned it to something with {goi}. Think of {ko'a} and friends as like names for things. I can say "I saw blah yesterday" without having to explicitly defining what "blah" is previously (or even in the future). On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 1:42 PM, .arpis. wrote: > I'm wondering about the usage of {roda} in lojban. In English, at least, > "everything" and "everyone" carry an implicit restriction; AFAIK lojban does > not do that, which makes {roda} without explicit restriction either > factually incorrect in most cases or useful only in very precise > conversation. > > This has gotten me thinking more about the semantics of {da}. I seem to > recall that {da}'s binding has bridi scope. > If I say {da prenu} without a prenex, am I commenting on the existence of a > man {si} person (to'i damn sexist language creeping in when I don't think > toi)? > If I say {roda prenu} without a prenex, am I saying that all "things" in > the world are people? > Can I use {ko'a} without having explicitly assigned it e.g. {ko'a noi pendo > mi co'e} instead of {ko'a goi lo pendo be mi co'e}? > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .arpis. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --90e6ba613c96065c97049c7efb86 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As I understand it, yes {roda prenu} is saying that everything is a person = (clearly wrong). =A0From what I've seen, it seems like {roda} is more u= seful when used with a prenix or {poi}, or when used with a negative selbri= like {mi na djuno roda}.

And I believe the answer to your second question is yes. =A0= It's ok to use {ko'a} even if you haven't assigned it to someth= ing with {goi}.

Think of {ko'a} and friends as= like names for things. =A0I can say "I saw blah yesterday" witho= ut having to explicitly defining what "blah" is=A0previously (or = even in the future).

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 1:42 PM, .arpis= . <rp= glover64+jbobau@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm wondering about the usage of {roda} in lojban.=A0 In English, at le= ast, "everything" and "everyone" carry an implicit rest= riction; AFAIK lojban does not do that, which makes {roda} without explicit= restriction either factually incorrect in most cases or useful only in ver= y precise conversation.

This has gotten me thinking more about the semantics of {da}. I seem to= recall that {da}'s binding has bridi scope.
If I say {da prenu} wit= hout a prenex, am I commenting on the existence of a man {si} person (to= 9;i damn sexist language creeping in when I don't think toi)?
If I say {roda prenu} without a prenex, am I saying that all "things&q= uot; in the world are people?
Can I use {ko'a} without having explic= itly assigned it e.g. {ko'a noi pendo mi co'e} instead of {ko'a= goi lo pendo be mi co'e}?


--
mu'o mi'e .arpis.

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