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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 15:20:52 -0300
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] translation check on zo-related quote
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On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Michael Turniansky
<mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> =A0=A0 I would say that x2 of "melbi je nixli" can be anything that is bo=
th an
> age, and a perceiver of beauty.=A0 You will certainly grant that I can
> meaningfully ask, "ma se melbi=A0gi'e se nixli"=A0 If the answer is "no d=
a",
> then it is "no da", but that doesn't stop the x2 from existing, merely fr=
om
> being filled in any meaningful way.

Let's not confuse answers with values. "no da" is an answer, not a
value. It is the answer that says that there is no value that can go
in that slot.

If "ta melbi je nixli no da" is true, then "ta melbi je nixli zo'e"
has to be false. It won't be true even if "ta" refers to a pretty
girl.

>> How many arguments does the tanru "melbi je nixli" have, and what is
>> the relationship that "melbi je nixli" expresses among its argumens?
>> Are you saying that "melbi je nixli" is a one-argument predicate?
>
> It has four, but probably only the first,=A0=A0and fourth are meaningful =
for
> (well, of course, it has infinite, like every brivla, but only the first
> four are defined).=A0 Actually, the third could be useable, too.=A0 "la c=
ilas.
> cu melbi je nixli fi lo merko" -- "Sheila is beautiful=A0for her American=
ness,
> but is underage by American standards".=A0 But this is probably a cheat, =
since
> it means that "lo merko" as to be a single something that is both a stand=
ard
> of age, and a quality of beauty simultaneously.

But for "la cilas cu melbi je nixli zo'e lo merko" to be true, there
has to be some value (even if it's not worth mentioning) that is
related to "la cilas" and to "lo merko" by the "melbi je nixli"
relationship. That's not to say that there are some words like "no da"
that you could put in the x2 to make a true claim.

>> Maybe the answer has to be that the place structure of "broda je
>> brode" cannot be determined in general, and it has to be defined on a
>> case by case basis, like the place structures of lujvo.
>
> =A0 Agreed.

But that disagrees with what you said above.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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