That makes me wonder= another thing. =A0If a bridi has a sumti in it that is {zi'o} is that = {zi'o} required since leaving it out will put {zo'e} in there?

I think I've mentioned before but I'll mention = it again: =A0I'm not comfortable with the idea of=A0omitted=A0places be= ing assumed to be zo'e. =A0I guess here is a good example of why I feel= that discomfort.

It seems to me like it would be better to assume that i= f a sumti slot is not filled=A0explicitly=A0that that slot could be filled = with ANY word or phrase (including zi'o) and context decides what goes = in that place.

I should be able to say either {zi'o zbasu mi lo ma= rji} or {zbasu mi lo marji} without confusing the listener into thinking th= at x1 is {zo'e}.

{x1 broda fi x2} should be ab= le to be interpreted as {x1 broda [zi'o | zo'e | zu'i] x3} pe&#= 39;icai

2011/2/18 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Michael Turniansky
<mturniansky@gmail.com> = wrote:
>
> =A0=A0 I would say that x2 of "melbi je nixli" can be anythi= ng that is both an
> age, and a perceiver of beauty.=A0 You will certainly grant that I can=
> meaningfully ask, "ma se melbi=A0gi'e se nixli"=A0 If th= e answer is "no da",
> then it is "no da", but that doesn't stop the x2 from ex= isting, merely from
> being filled in any meaningful way.

Let's not confuse answers with values. "no da" is an an= swer, not a
value. It is the answer that says that there is no value that can go
in that slot.

If "ta melbi je nixli no da" is true, then "ta melbi je nixl= i zo'e"
has to be false. It won't be true even if "ta" refers to a pr= etty
girl.

>> How many arguments does the tanru "melbi je nixli" have,= and what is
>> the relationship that "melbi je nixli" expresses among i= ts argumens?
>> Are you saying that "melbi je nixli" is a one-argument p= redicate?
>
> It has four, but probably only the first,=A0=A0and fourth are meaningf= ul for
> (well, of course, it has infinite, like every brivla, but only the fir= st
> four are defined).=A0 Actually, the third could be useable, too.=A0 &q= uot;la cilas.
> cu melbi je nixli fi lo merko" -- "Sheila is beautiful=A0for= her Americanness,
> but is underage by American standards".=A0 But this is probably a= cheat, since
> it means that "lo merko" as to be a single something that is= both a standard
> of age, and a quality of beauty simultaneously.

But for "la cilas cu melbi je nixli zo'e lo merko" to b= e true, there
has to be some value (even if it's not worth mentioning) that is
related to "la cilas" and to "lo merko" by the "me= lbi je nixli"
relationship. That's not to say that there are some words like "no= da"
that you could put in the x2 to make a true claim.

>> Maybe the answer has to be that the place structure of "broda= je
>> brode" cannot be determined in general, and it has to be defi= ned on a
>> case by case basis, like the place structures of lujvo.
>
> =A0 Agreed.

But that disagrees with what you said above.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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