Received: from mail-px0-f189.google.com ([209.85.212.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PqyMx-0005Bv-HU; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 17:45:56 -0800 Received: by pxi19 with SMTP id 19sf1651492pxi.16 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 17:45:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=BmUlvn4IUCFCZ91JYb7aGuGfYIq7y6T0LDcvbXm2pek=; b=PPkndM5vczqVesujBuBsOg/2p5kdzQ2cHKIHd4md/4o5SIo2BqR0YCOtYbk/EhkVDz PU4+h3+3B6BlQpAGylA6ASGZOH4Ks6o1m/IGgn9jqCxqYeM48OCcQkpiDZQwWljaMLZ4 b2yaBFk4uWgaD8WuVvbe0FypRxhb9o7eoJfA8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=ahxzriDVkNPprpsVcp2SB5/LYwpPcEjFwyQIcQCimbhFBHsKBDovmoHeROWWq7YZdJ QIOFsFhNlwGlP0sJ8BL1/giaZG9M16Cl3X1KUIeyLH6Flo6BDpY6HjhEdtvzWQ4Jcd+k m/eoWORJSmSn2kifII/y/Tg7mH0TTDwjM66F0= Received: by 10.142.127.16 with SMTP id z16mr121005wfc.6.1298166333202; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 17:45:33 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.143.178.9 with SMTP id f9ls649779wfp.0.p; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 17:45:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.140.2 with SMTP id n2mr488895wfd.0.1298166331995; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 17:45:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.140.2 with SMTP id n2mr488894wfd.0.1298166331956; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 17:45:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pv0-f176.google.com (mail-pv0-f176.google.com [74.125.83.176]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k41si3991414wfa.3.2011.02.19.17.45.30 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 19 Feb 2011 17:45:30 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.176 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.83.176; Received: by pvb32 with SMTP id 32so802234pvb.21 for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 17:45:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.144.14 with SMTP id r14mr1856201wfd.429.1298166330750; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 17:45:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.53.5 with HTTP; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 17:45:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 20:45:30 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] lujvo making help request From: Ian Johnson To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.176 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd3291e00f72f049cace7de Content-Length: 8351 --000e0cd3291e00f72f049cace7de Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Where'd tolcu'i go? Also, if you look at the tanru grouping, you have: (((god-kind-of-exist)-kind-of-impossible)-kind-of-know)-kind-of-believe which seems to be "believe that you can know that it's impossible for a god to exist", to me. {cevni zasti djuno tolcu'i krici} seems like the right tanru, with the lujvo changing analogously. mu'o mi'e .latros. On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 7:54 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > cevni zasti tolcu'i djuno krici = cevza'iju'okri > > > On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Alex Rozenshteyn wrote: > >> I'm unsatisfied with the current translation of "agnostic" as >> "god-doubter" >> >> While that works in common usage, a more precise definition (at least as >> it is used in certain circles in which I discuss) would be "one who believes >> in the unknowability of the existence of a god" >> >> so I tried to come up with a lujvo: >> >> krici lo du'u tolcu'i lo djuno be lo du'u zasti fa lo cevni -> {ko'a} >> believes that it is impossible to know that god exists. (djuno asks for a >> {du'u}, although {jei} may be more appropriate) >> fi lo cevni cu krici lo du'u tolcu'i lo djuno be lo du'u zasti -> {ko'a} >> believes about god that it is impossible to know that {zo'e} exists >> cevni krici lo du'u tolcu'i lo djuno be lo du'u zasti -> {ko'a} god >> type-of believes that it is impossible to know that {zo'e} exists >> cevni krici lo du'u tolcu'i lo zasti djuno -> {ko'a} god type-of believes >> that it is impossible to exist type-of know >> cevni krici lo du'u zasti djuno tolcu'i -> {ko'a} god type-of believes >> that (exist type-of know) type-of impossible >> >> But I get stuck there. Am I going about this the right way? >> >> Is the next progression >> >> zasti djuno tolcu'i cevni bo krici = zasti djuno tolcu'i ke cevni krici >> >> ? >> >> I'd appreciate any advice. >> >> -- >> Alex R >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu > do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --000e0cd3291e00f72f049cace7de Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Where'd tolcu'i go?

Also, if you look at the tanru grouping,= you have:
(((god-kind-of-exist)-kind-of-impossible)-kind-of-know)-kind-= of-believe
which seems to be "believe that you can know that it'= ;s impossible for a god to exist", to me. {cevni zasti djuno tolcu'= ;i krici} seems like the right tanru, with the lujvo changing analogously.<= br>
mu'o mi'e .latros.

On Sat, Fe= b 19, 2011 at 7:54 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
cevni zasti tolcu'i djuno krici =3D cevza'iju'okri


On Sat, Feb 19, 201= 1 at 2:24 PM, Alex Rozenshteyn <rpglover64@gmail.com> wro= te:
I'm unsatisfi= ed with the current translation of "agnostic" as "god-doubte= r"

While that works in common usage, a more precise definition (at least a= s it is used in certain circles in which I discuss) would be "one who = believes in the unknowability of the existence of a god"

so I tried to come up with a lujvo:

krici lo du'u tolcu'= i lo djuno be lo du'u zasti fa lo cevni -> {ko'a} believes that = it is impossible to know that god exists. (djuno asks for a {du'u}, alt= hough {jei} may be more appropriate)
fi lo cevni cu krici lo du'u tolcu'i lo djuno be lo du'u zasti = -> {ko'a} believes about god that it is impossible to know that {zo&= #39;e} exists
cevni krici lo du'u tolcu'i lo djuno be lo du'= u zasti -> {ko'a} god type-of believes that it is impossible to know= that {zo'e} exists
cevni krici lo du'u tolcu'i lo zasti djuno -> {ko'a} god typ= e-of believes that it is impossible to exist type-of know
cevni krici lo= du'u zasti djuno tolcu'i -> {ko'a} god type-of believes tha= t (exist type-of know) type-of impossible

But I get stuck there.=A0 Am I going about this the right way?

I= s the next progression

zasti djuno tolcu'i cevni bo krici =3D za= sti djuno tolcu'i ke cevni krici

?

I'd appreciate any= advice.

--
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Alex R

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko= cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
<= div class=3D"h5">

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/g= roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.

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