Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PraLz-00089j-AA; Mon, 21 Feb 2011 10:19:26 -0800 Received: by qyk36 with SMTP id 36sf4559662qyk.16 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2011 10:19:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=P8jIXME5MySZW9qhEp164FszvpulZDREPZnxnclj0M8=; b=U0s97jE871dtRamm0PWP/0HJ0xZsVJg4S/Qmx7ltp0aSwZJWdipzB4uDmhPbZR34zT N8m2tzNBd4K/liRZEiiC5RVhbQ0ikYG1Svl5LRxQ8PO4JH/AnkVRVuA/kaeFBWgVBW56 c5wcW6M2wSEt9OWcwzEbQTkAeSgaG7HCq8D4E= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=CZ/pP07FR6zE+yPbvgYNn5fEC8/ERE+wAAngirUupwnMaaNBensrSb9CrXiIi2ZZaP IGaWmNCRsx2aR7JrSAeBZWOYfcghpkk5tRLABUNZ9mU8vwUObHsXBCBF7IHwgcHaJcqd T28caqQXkoTPhRxYTRG9Pr04kT1QYYglfG6dI= Received: by 10.229.99.199 with SMTP id v7mr190470qcn.16.1298312349385; Mon, 21 Feb 2011 10:19:09 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.80.196 with SMTP id u4ls264647qck.0.p; Mon, 21 Feb 2011 10:19:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.69.22 with SMTP id x22mr144166qci.13.1298312348489; Mon, 21 Feb 2011 10:19:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.69.22 with SMTP id x22mr144165qci.13.1298312348446; Mon, 21 Feb 2011 10:19:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qy0-f172.google.com (mail-qy0-f172.google.com [209.85.216.172]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o8si1168491qcu.2.2011.02.21.10.19.08 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 21 Feb 2011 10:19:08 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rdentato@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.172 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.172; Received: by qyk29 with SMTP id 29so1373540qyk.10 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2011 10:19:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.99.130 with SMTP id u2mr1236581qcn.211.1298312348188; Mon, 21 Feb 2011 10:19:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.191.21 with HTTP; Mon, 21 Feb 2011 10:19:08 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <201102171403.40004.phma@phma.optus.nu> <201102171622.02738.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 19:19:08 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Question about {roda} From: Remo Dentato To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rdentato@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rdentato@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.172 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rdentato@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Length: 1282 On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 12:13 PM, tijlan wrote: > Using an unbound "da", can one say "ro da noi prenu cu xebni mi" to > mean the usual sense of "everyone hates me" (where "everyone" doesn't > include "me")? Why the {da noi prenu} rather then {da poi prenu}? I don't get why one would want to use an "unbound {da}" and then use an incidental to better specify it. Also, since {mi} is a {prenu} I don't see how this would exclude "me" from "everyone". Just as a reality check, is there anyone that reading {roda xebni mi} would really think that {da} includes natural numbers, the star Aldebaran and the chair I'm sitting on? Or even "myself"? It seems to me that {roda broda} should (under common circumstances) be the at least understood as {roda poi kakne lo nu broda cu broda}. So in a context where chairs may hate, {da} includes chairs but usually {da} will include some "people". remod -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.