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From: Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 14:14:27 -0500
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Question about {roda}
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My only concern is that if {roda} has an implicite {poi co'e} then I'm not
sure what you could put in for that {co'e} that gets you back to the strong
EVERYTHING that logicians want.

lojban makes it very easy to narrow a concepts meaning (with tanru, with
poi/noi, with further bridi, etc...), but there are very few ways (none that
my fever-addled brain can think of at the moment anyway) that expand a
concepts meaning.  So if we take something as widely expanded as {ro} and
say "oh, but it's not really universal all the time" then what CAN you say
that is consistently universal?

On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 1:46 PM, .arpis. <rpglover64+jbobau@gmail.com>wrote:

> It seems to me that the contention is not so much about {da} but mostly
> about {ro}, and to whether or not an implicit {poi co'e} is permitted in
> most situations.
>
> This seems perfectly fine (if imprecise) to me, provided this does not
> apply in a logical prenex.
> People who know lojban better than I seem to be having a discussion about
> this, and I'm trying to keep up and learn.
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Remo Dentato <rdentato@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > I would read that as "everything (which are people) hate me".  So you're
>> > still saying {roda xebni mi} while also implying that {roda prenu}.
>>
>> Yes, I was just saying that since you had {noi}, you might use {poi}
>> instead and really restrict {da}.
>>
>> I hope we all will end up with a sort of common understanding.
>> At the moment I'm still on the side of those that say that {da} may be
>> implicitly bound by by reasonable assumptions on the context (the
>> universe of discourse), I'm no longer sure of who's against this point
>> of view (and why).
>>
>> remo
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Lojban Beginners" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
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>> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .arpis.
>
>  --
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My only concern is that if {roda} has an implicite {poi co&#39;e} then I&#3=
9;m not sure what you could put in for that {co&#39;e} that gets you back t=
o the strong EVERYTHING that logicians want.<div><br></div><div>lojban make=
s it very easy to narrow a concepts meaning (with tanru, with poi/noi, with=
 further bridi, etc...), but there are very few ways (none that my fever-ad=
dled brain can think of at the moment anyway) that expand a concepts meanin=
g. =A0So if we take something as widely expanded as {ro} and say &quot;oh, =
but it&#39;s not really universal all the time&quot; then what CAN you say =
that is consistently universal?</div>

<div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 1:46 PM, .arpis=
. <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rpglover64%2Bjbobau@gmail.com">rp=
glover64+jbobau@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-lef=
t:1ex;">

It seems to me that the contention is not so much about {da} but mostly abo=
ut {ro}, and to whether or not an implicit {poi co&#39;e} is permitted in m=
ost situations.<br><br>This seems perfectly fine (if imprecise) to me, prov=
ided this does not apply in a logical prenex.<br>


People who know lojban better than I seem to be having a discussion about t=
his, and I&#39;m trying to keep up and learn.<div><div></div><div class=3D"=
h5"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Rem=
o Dentato <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rdentato@gmail.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">rdentato@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>


<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex"><div>On Mon, Feb 21, 20=
11 at 7:22 PM, Luke Bergen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">lukeabergen@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>



&gt; I would read that as &quot;everything (which are people) hate me&quot;=
. =A0So you&#39;re<br>
&gt; still saying {roda xebni mi} while also implying that {roda prenu}.<br=
>
<br>
</div>Yes, I was just saying that since you had {noi}, you might use {poi}<=
br>
instead and really restrict {da}.<br>
<br>
I hope we all will end up with a sort of common understanding.<br>
At the moment I&#39;m still on the side of those that say that {da} may be<=
br>
implicitly bound by by reasonable assumptions on the context (the<br>
universe of discourse), I&#39;m no longer sure of who&#39;s against this po=
int<br>
of view (and why).<br>
<br>
remo<br>
<font color=3D"#888888"><br>
--<br>
</font><div><div></div><div>You received this message because you are subsc=
ribed to the Google Groups &quot;Lojban Beginners&quot; group.<br>
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roup/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den</a>.<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br></div></div><div c=
lass=3D"im">-- <br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e .arpis.<br><br>

<p></p>

-- <br></div><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5">
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

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