Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PsFkv-000344-Cq; Wed, 23 Feb 2011 06:32:02 -0800 Received: by qwk3 with SMTP id 3sf9306405qwk.16 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2011 06:31:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=uL/A2WHM9TApzLgoAqLsXAzMhcgPt6I4Th5ayatm38w=; b=1nLzD38CRlr1NCxIVRWjC17WjbCYd/W9MJRlsCxflWSqW0gHb+XTO87zjls9hSQlsN 8t+OJ5QjJQjGqJVmwuQFK+AbTI9QKd52JwrTmnIvKvL+n3wvmVQm88nAy137ZzhaQexA puHEol0h1+BcngwaEDD2R1ayVZPvnE2/z3rVU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=MzX+U9kdptRC9a8ydPthUL37l7hjtHNNxKkOz3sG8E+ZW7QhIsAjswka/nBsu2JYzO gqAg42cCCc904YUmK84sXKpYdicmASjy1Jv/Vnnej4A8QxwRG38LxcJjJObTp/y2d+Tz Tl0V7cw8g3KO4rs5hb2MtfuPU1LmcIBIB+97A= Received: by 10.229.20.81 with SMTP id e17mr553116qcb.18.1298471499310; Wed, 23 Feb 2011 06:31:39 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.204.201 with SMTP id fn9ls292902qcb.3.p; Wed, 23 Feb 2011 06:31:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.251.134 with SMTP id ms6mr458650qcb.5.1298471498549; Wed, 23 Feb 2011 06:31:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.251.134 with SMTP id ms6mr458647qcb.5.1298471498520; Wed, 23 Feb 2011 06:31:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qy0-f182.google.com (mail-qy0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ey28si1650879qcb.7.2011.02.23.06.31.38 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 23 Feb 2011 06:31:38 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.182 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.182; Received: by mail-qy0-f182.google.com with SMTP id 27so2654139qyk.13 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2011 06:31:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.31.15 with SMTP id w15mr3220374qcc.22.1298471498211; Wed, 23 Feb 2011 06:31:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.222.15 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Feb 2011 06:31:37 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 09:31:37 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: {nal-} vs {nar-} From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.182 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636833f8c66f2a2049cf3f481 Content-Length: 7840 --001636833f8c66f2a2049cf3f481 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Correct, nu'o would be a bad idea for that reason. It does mean that you have never yet believed, whereas atheists might have been theists sometime in their past. It also eliminate those hypothetical atheists who are not innately capable of being theists (remember, nu'o means "can, but hasn't"). I also think that stylistically, "na" is a bad thing to use in all lujvo, since it has bridi-wide implications. Also, not real fond of "nalceikri" for atheist. A "nalceikri" would logically be a non-theist, and include agnostics. An atheist would be a "tolceikri" --gejyspa On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:56 PM, Jameson Orndorff wrote: > I want to say something like {nu'orselcei} or {nu'orceikri}, but I > believe those imply that you have never believed, not just that you > don't now. > > On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:39 PM, Luke Bergen > wrote: > > No but the thought is that it's an absurd idea that a pencil should be > > considered able to believe anything. That's the point of na'e. It's > there > > to say "ok, you're on the right track but you ARE wrong". > > > > On Feb 22, 2011 8:26 PM, "Ivo Doko" wrote: > >> On 23 February 2011 00:35, ianek wrote: > >> > >>> That way, a pencil is an atheist. > >>> > >> > >> Are there any deities a pencil believes in? > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >> "Lojban Beginners" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > >> For more options, visit this group at > >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > >> > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Lojban Beginners" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --001636833f8c66f2a2049cf3f481 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=A0=A0 Correct, nu'o would be a bad idea for that= reason.=A0 It does mean that you have never yet believed, whereas atheists= might have been theists sometime in their past.=A0=A0 It also eliminate th= ose hypothetical atheists who are not innately capable of being theists (re= member, nu'o means "can, but hasn't").

=A0 I also think that stylistically, "na" is a bad thing to u= se in all lujvo, since it has bridi-wide implications.
=A0
=A0 Also, not real fond of "nalceikri" for atheist.=A0 A &qu= ot;nalceikri" would logically be a non-theist, and include agnostics.= =A0 An atheist would be a "tolceikri"
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa
=A0
=A0
On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:56 PM, Jameson Orndorf= f <jtorndorff@= gmail.com> wrote:
I want to say something like {nu= 'orselcei} or {nu'orceikri}, but I
believe those imply that you = have never believed, not just that you
don't now.

On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:39 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:> No but the thought is that it's an absurd idea that a pencil sho= uld be
> considered able to believe anything.=A0=A0 That's the point of na&= #39;e.=A0 It's there
> to say "ok, you're on the right t= rack but you ARE wrong".
>
> On Feb 22, 2011 8:26 PM, &quo= t;Ivo Doko" <ivo.doko@gmail.c= om> wrote:
>> On 23 February 2011 00:35, ianek <janek37@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> That w= ay, a pencil is an atheist.
>>>
>>
>> Are the= re any deities a pencil believes in?
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you a= re subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Lojban Beginners"= group.
>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> lojban-beginner= s+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit thi= s group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den= .
>>
>
> --
> You received this message beca= use you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Lojban Beginners" group.
> To post to this group, sen= d email to lojban-begi= nners@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send em= ail to
> loj= ban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, v= isit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to t= he Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this gro= up, send email to lojb= an-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://gr= oups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
--001636833f8c66f2a2049cf3f481--