2011/2/23 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>

2011/2/22 Michael Turniansky <m= turniansky@gmail.com>:

>
> =A0 I don't understand what is so onerous about simply SAYING &quo= t;ro le prenu" if
> that's what you mean.

We were comparing "ro da" vs "ro prenu", and my p= oint was that the
restriction to prenu was in many contexts insignificant compared to
other contextual restrictions, so "ro prenu" doesn't solve th= e
putative problems with "ro da". English forces you to distinguish=
"everybody" from "everything" in the same way that it f= orces you to
distinguish "he" and "she" from "it", Lojban = doesn't.

As for "le", I don't really know how it really works. Suppose= you want
to say "Everybody will love your dress at the party tomorrow", bu= t I
have no idea who will be there at the party tomorrow. Can I use "le prenu" to refer to the people who will be at the party, even though I<= br> don't have any particular person in mind? Is "le" about parti= cular
values you have in mind or about particular restrictions you have in
mind? I don't know. I don't think "le" is well defined, s= o I don't use
it.

> You are arbitrarily restricting it to mean exaclty
> whatever it is you think it should be retricted, and explicitly saying= so.
> So instead of the listener having to ponder, "Oh, I wonder if the= speaker is
> really intended to mean everything, or if he is intending to restrict = it to
> some context, and if the latter, what context is it?"=A0 He alrea= dy KNOWS the
> answer to the first part (restricted), and simply has to figure out th= e
> second part.=A0Whereas if you say "ro prenu" you mean exactl= y that -- "all
> people, everywhere"=A0 No further pondering necessary.

"All people, everywhere" could be more restricted than plai= n "all
people", because it excludes people that are nowhere. It may also make=
you wonder whether you also mean people of every time or whether you
mean to restrict it to the present, since you went to the trouble of
specifying where but not when. I don't think "ro prenu" makes= any
reference to places, so it can't mean exactly "all people,
everywhere".

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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