Received: from mail-vx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.220.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Pt1ju-00024N-Sw; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 09:46:11 -0800 Received: by vxc33 with SMTP id 33sf1017251vxc.16 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 09:45:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :x-google-group-id:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=ZkcgVLvb3cPHvaLVYFlmn0zmGpluxpjC4Im6fdLebIQ=; b=eKlIBITU3KsUIuf9YhbzIOLtADL6Iw9CBPZxtBbYiCcYqTBM9EhvpGUoQF8caKyn3U GkRmStOHqlWKX6xuAx7DNofml36J3zIuFLwrjGJckcamjJEIvLq7x0a/sdmWhEMoVyOd tfaJZscE6CeCVdKa++LiN1wExrstD8wuaK3lc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:x-google-group-id:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=sUSLCTr6/F5Syhg3A4yVks3HL3dzQkjhjdf2S+Wws3SX5UUjAomgyBZPyvcgKncRRb Dfv6pu+L9JJlYLhLHB2eD7LF6D6MmUWLfHlJXGTEHW4rLi+TZ8mzxqq19sz8osTRVNz/ R91GEtcAzj+Itu/PcHynSsQ0dQKIi/QQw/pRQ= Received: by 10.220.190.131 with SMTP id di3mr283247vcb.22.1298655948514; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 09:45:48 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.109.137 with SMTP id j9ls947731vcp.0.p; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 09:45:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.193.133 with SMTP id du5mr799590vcb.19.1298655947586; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 09:45:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.193.133 with SMTP id du5mr799588vcb.19.1298655947530; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 09:45:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qw0-f49.google.com (mail-qw0-f49.google.com [209.85.216.49]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d11si140980vby.5.2011.02.25.09.45.47 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 25 Feb 2011 09:45:47 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.49 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.49; Received: by mail-qw0-f49.google.com with SMTP id 9so1485675qwj.36 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 09:45:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.88.207 with SMTP id b15mr2155948qcm.34.1298655946958; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 09:45:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.222.15 with HTTP; Fri, 25 Feb 2011 09:45:46 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <000e0cd4c3e03fd8d2049d1e9259@google.com> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 12:45:46 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Re: Re: [lojban-beginners] Question about {roda} From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.49 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com X-Google-Group-Id: 94518172 Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016367f997e6767d4049d1ee6e6 Content-Length: 8133 --0016367f997e6767d4049d1ee6e6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I have no problem with that with option 2. It's hyperbolic speech. Bob is exaggerating, but saying exactly what he means to say, "everything in the entire universe is wrong". BTW, someone before asked about the current existence in the corpus of "roda" used to mean the universal everything, a usage the writer deemed "rare"? Well, sure: it appears in the second sentence of my Berenstain Bears and the Prize Pumpkin, which I wrote like 4 years ago: "roda naku su'ode rodi zo'u da de simsa di .ije da na'e du de" --gejyspa On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 12:36 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: > It just feels like option three has the power to very easily make malgli. > Bob: it's wrong, it's all wrong. > Dan: what's wrong? > Bob: everything. > > This ambiguous little piece of conversation can easily be translated to > lojban with option 3 roda. > Bob: toldrani .i roda toldrani > Dan: .i ma toldrani > Bob: roda go'i > > Now, is the above "ambiguous" or "vague" > On Feb 25, 2011 12:22 PM, wrote: > > On , Michael Turniansky wrote: > >> I'm sorry, but I'm with Lindar here. > > Hi Michael , I know how painful is to be in agreement with Lindar, it > > happens to me too, sometimes :) ({zo'o}) > > > >> If you want to say "I see two animals ... > > I agree, I could say it differently and I probably would if I needed. The > > > point is how to read the sentence {roda plisa} if {da} has not been > > previously bound. > > > > Since {roda} is grammatical, we have to decide what is the interpretation > > > in case {da} it's not bound. > > > > I see three choices: > > > > 1. No interpretation (ie it's nonsensical) > > > 2. It means EVERYTHING (in some metaphysical sense) > > 3. Can be interpreted depending on the context > > > > My vote is in favour of option 3. The second choice for me would be > option > > 1. If the majority would vote for option 2 I will mumble in the dark and > > never, ever use an unbound {da} > > > > remod > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=en. --0016367f997e6767d4049d1ee6e6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=A0 I have no problem with that with option 2.=A0 It&= #39;s hyperbolic speech.=A0 Bob is exaggerating, but saying exactly what he= means to say, "everything in the entire universe is wrong".=A0 B= TW, someone before asked about the current existence in the corpus=A0of &qu= ot;roda" used to mean the universal everything, a usage the writer dee= med "rare"?=A0 Well, sure: it appears in the second sentence of m= y Berenstain Bears and the Prize Pumpkin, which I wrote like=A04 years ago:= "roda naku su'ode rodi zo'u da de simsa di .ije da na'e d= u de"
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --gejyspa
=A0
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 12:36 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gm= ail.com> wrote:

It just feels like option three has the power to very easily make malgli= .=A0
Bob:=A0 it's wrong, it's all wrong.
Dan:=A0 what's = wrong?
Bob:=A0 everything.

This ambiguous little piece of conversation can easily be translated to = lojban with option 3 roda.
Bob:=A0 toldrani .i roda toldrani
Dan:=A0 = .i ma toldrani
Bob:=A0 roda go'i

Now, is the above "ambiguous" or "vague"

On Feb 25, 2011 12:22 PM, <rdentato@gmail.com> wrote:
> On , Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm sorry, but I'm with Lindar here.
> Hi Michael , = I know how painful is to be in agreement with Lindar, it
> happens t= o me too, sometimes :) ({zo'o})
>
>> If you want to say= "I see two animals ...
> I agree, I could say it differently and I probably would if I needed. = The
> point is how to read the sentence {roda plisa} if {da} has not= been
> previously bound.
>
> Since {roda} is grammatic= al, we have to decide what is the interpretation
> in case {da} it's not bound.
>
> I see three choices:=
>
> 1. No interpretation (ie it's nonsensical)=20

> 2. It means EVERYTHING (in some metaphysical sen= se)
> 3. Can be interpreted depending on the context
>
>= My vote is in favour of option 3. The second choice for me would be option=
> 1. If the majority would vote for option 2 I will mumble in the dark a= nd
> never, ever use an unbound {da}
>
> remod
> =
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed t= o the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com= .
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-be= ginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.= com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.
>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the G= oogle Groups "Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, = send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= -beginners?hl=3Den.
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